The Vorlons

Babylon 5 Message Center /Vorlons #1
Subj:: How did it start?
Date: 12/2/95 2:57:16 AM
From: Nermeister
Posted on: America Online

With the Vorlons and the Shadows, sometimes it’s like some kind of balance in the universe has been tipped
between these two opposing forces, light and darkness, and now they have no choice but to fight it out until
the balance is restored.
How did it start? With a Vorlon coming to B5 and an assassination attempt against him? Then tensions
between the Narn and Centauri esclate, Earth becomes dominated by anit-alien groups and the controlling
Psi-corps, Minbar suffers a schism between the warrior and religious castes even within the Grey Council
(not too grey anymore, are they?), or as Garibaldi would put it, “The universe is going to hell in a
handbasket.”
The first signs of internal discord seem to be at the end of the Earth-Minbari war, when the rift between the
castes was caused by the religious caste’s decision to surrender to Earth. Poor Jeff Sinclair just happened to
be in the right place at the right time for them to find out he had a Minbari soul. Don’t all those wonderful
coincidences on B5 remind you of the Japanese stone garden? “He has a Minbari soul.” (sorry, comic
quote) Ripple…”What do you want?” Ripple…”Have the Shadows returned to Z’ha’dum?” Ripple…”You
have always been here.” Ripple…”Sooner or later I’m going to Z’ha’dum.” Ripple…”The Corp will find you.”
Ripple…”We will finally know peace in our time.” Ripple…etc.

Subj:: the universe
Date: 12/2/95 6:29:39 AM
From: Mr PBody1
Posted on: America Online

It’s just trying to figure itself out. the showdows and the Vorlons are just a small part of the whole. The
Vorlons where the angles of legend for many alien species. They are as old as the shadows. Remember
when Kosh met Mr. Mordon: He said, “They are not for you” Only the Centari are for the shadows for
they are meant to conquer!

Subj:: Vorlons and Kosh
Date: 12/2/95 4:26:24 PM
From: IronKobra
Posted on: America Online

I have something to bring up that I don’t think anyone else has brought up yet. Everyone keeps talking about
the Vorlons and Kosh as if they were the same race, but didn’t Delenn say that Kosh was the *last and only*
one of the “First Ones” left on this side of the rim? If so, doesn’t that imply that the Vorlons are *not*
whatever Kosh is, and hence could look completely different? So what’s really going on in the Vorlon
Empire and what exactly are the Vorlons?

Subj:: Re:Vorlons and Kosh
Date: 12/2/95 10:31:36 PM
From: BruceW7125
Posted on: America Online

I think that Kosh is indeed a Vorlon. The comment made regarding Kosh, I believe, was made
as a generalization. I.E. Geronimo was the last of his kind.. a great warrior who refused to
Subj:ugate to the White Man. Well of course there were still plenty members of his tribe left
in the country and an even larger number of Indians in general. Think of how many times an
individual is used when refering to a larger group.

Subj:: Re:Vorlons and Kosh
Date: 12/3/95 3:30:34 AM
From: Arrghman
Posted on: America Online

In the Lurkers Guide to Babylon 5, in the guide for “In The Shadow of Za’ha’dum”, JMS said that Delenn
ment the Vorlons as a race, not just Kosh.

Subj:: Vorlons and Shadows…
Date: 12/3/95 4:32:25 AM
From: S Ivanova
Posted on: America Online

Just a thought. I have an inside source that stated to me… ” The Vorlons may be doing the “right” things
for the “wrong” reasons and the Shadows may be doing the “wrong” things for the “right” reasons.” Who
are our friends and who are our enemies??? Discuss…

Subj:: Re:Vorlons and Kosh
Date: 12/3/95 7:23:55 PM
From: IronKobra
Posted on: America Online

Well, I stand corrected (darn it!). What a lovely idea to be killed though.

Subj:: Re:Friends or Foes?
Date: 12/4/95 9:57:57 PM
From: RPillow
Posted on: America Online

Kosh wasn’t sucking anything out of Lyta, it was Lyta that was returning Kosh to his encounter suit.
Apparently Kosh is now using Lyta as an encounter suit, or is possessing her. I’d like to point out that in
“Knives,” the same thing, or something very similar, happened to Captain Sheridan. Remember when he
took the Starfury and went out into space only to have those three beams of light shoot out of his eyes and
mouth and go into some kind of portal? That was most likely a Vorlon, or maybe even Kosh, trying to use
him in the same way that he is now using Lyta.

spoiler space

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Kosh may have found that he can’t use Sheridan to his own or to the ultimate goal of the Vorlons.
Remember that Kosh was teaching Sheridan until he was ready “to fight legends.” Sheridan may now be
invulnerable to coercion by either the Shadows or the Vorlons. Keep a VERY close eye on his dealings
with Kosh and Lyta. It may turn out that the humans will end up having to destroy both the Shadows and
the Vorlons, since neither are our “friends.” Where the Ancients fit into the whole story remains to be seen,
but cheer up. After all, the humans did win the Great War. To find out how I know this, go back and listen
to all of the monologues from Season 1 through Season 3. Notice how everything is referred to in the past
tense, “It WAS the dawn of the Third Age of mankind,” “This is the story of the last of the Babylon
stations,” etc. Londo, Sinclair, Sheridan, and Ivanova all refer to the events that occured between 2257 and
2262 in the past tense, indicating that they survived the Great War and evolved into Star Beings. Well, all
except for Londo, since both the Centauri and the Narn have been doomed by the Vorlons.

RPillow

Subj:: Re:Friends or Foes?
Date: 12/5/95 2:06:41 AM
From: Danithar
Posted on: America Online

The preview for that show is a rerun, blockhead. That’s just the defense mechanisms for Kosh’s ship from
last season!!!

Subj:: Re:Friends or Foes?
Date: 12/5/95 2:44:58 AM
From: Kerning
Posted on: America Online

Isn’t Kosh supposed to be the last of his race? Maybe that’s why nobody can ever talk to them. Lyta said she
floated in Vorlon space for almost five days before Kosh’s ship picked her up. What a coincidince! Maybe
what she can’t talk about is the fact that he is the last of the Vorlons!

Subj:: Re:Friends or Foes?
Date: 12/6/95 1:27:47 AM
From: Nermeister
Posted on: America Online

Kosh is not the last of the Vorlons. He is one of the Vorlons, the last race of First Ones left.

Subj:: Re:Vorlons and Shadows…
Date: 12/6/95 7:42:52 AM
From: Ken N 63
Posted on: America Online

This is exactly what I put forth in another post in another folder.

I believe the Vorlons are not as “good” as we’ve been conditioned to believe. I also think that the Shadows
may have a very good reason for fighting the Vorlons. However, I believe both races are useing us lessor
races for their own purposes. I don’t think either is inherently good or evil.

Also regarding Lyta. I think she may be another form of inquisitor. I believe, based on several different
episodes, that Kosh’s psychic abilities are limited while he is confined to the encounter suit. I believe he
can project psychic images (in fact his speach may in fact be a psychic projection (he speaks in every
language, but we hear our own)) as evidenced by dreams and such he has placed in minds. However, I
think his psi reception is weak at best. He may be using Lyta as a receptacle to store the impressions,
loyalties, thoughts of the other folks on B5. Not being Psi Corp, she could be actively scanning, perhaps
with those being scanned completely unaware, people in the station for information that could prove
helpfull for Kosh. In the final scene of PtG, she was sending him the psychic impressions she had collected
to this point.

Of course, I could be completely wrong ….. <bg>

Just a thought,

Ken Nichols
Subj:: Re:Vorlons and Shadows…
Date: 12/8/95 7:54:34 AM
From: RickKston
Posted on: America Online

Now there is an interesting thought Ken. Maybe the Vorlons and the Shadows are projections of the evil
that lurks in lesser races’ minds – Molari’s evel intent is only evel in that the Shadows are using it for
another purpose, which might be good. And perhaps the Vorlons’ see a wrong path for the continuation of
life – who says the Vorlons and the Shadows have their heads on straight? Quite possibly the wrong
assignment of good and bad is the measurement of those things as understood and practiced by the lesser
races – and both are reacting to what has become an out of control situation. I think its not so much a
measure of war for good and evil, but the stewardship of age old secrets – which are clearly far advanced
and dangerous in the hands of those who don’t understand it. What’s missing here is that the Shadows have
no presence and representation on B5 and Mr. Mordecai (?) may have become a puppet of a different race
altogether….

Brenher

Subj:: Re:Friends or Foe…
Date: 12/9/95 1:47:38 AM
From: PGlick3358
Posted on: America Online

I totally agree! Kosh is the last of his kind at “this time”. I believe the rest are like the shadows
sleeping. Waiting for Kosh’s call….

Subj:: Past tense
Date: 12/9/95 3:13:23 AM
From: Ekk
Posted on: America Online

Don’t be too sure of the outcome of things simply because a monolog uses the past tense to describe future
events. (Still with me?) Some of the strangest tales I have ever read used this tack as the ultimate of red
herrings. Stay tuned…

Subj:: Re:good v evil
Date: 12/9/95 8:17:29 PM
From: FMoskow559
Posted on: America Online

it is extremely obvios that the vorlon(KOSH) IS GOOD and the shadows are the evil balance.kosh is
protrayed in most races as holly spirit in many ways the focal point of the cultures spirit.it is no accident
that kosh assumes angelic form to retrieve and give life to his messenger of good! will capt. sheridan. kosh /
vorlons are and always will be beyond reproach there exitence is to guide the universe towards light and
truth.
SINCERELY WRITTEN FRED MOSKOWITZ FMOSKOW559

Subj:: Re:good v evil
Date: 12/10/95 12:58:53 AM
From: Songokuten
Posted on: America Online

>>it is extremely obvios that the vorlon(KOSH) IS GOOD and the shadows are the evil balance.kosh is
protrayed in most races as holly spirit in many ways the focal point of the cultures spirit.it is no accident
that kosh assumes angelic form to retrieve and give life to his messenger of good! will capt. sheridan. kosh /
vorlons are and always will be beyond reproach there exitence is to guide the universe towards light and
truth.<<

DUH… Gee, the politicians are all kissing babies and shaking hands, they must be good!

You’d have to have been really manipulated to fall for the old “He looks good, he nice. Them ugly, them
bad” syndrome.

Subj:: Re:Vorlons and Kosh
Date: 12/10/95 3:16:33 AM
From: Davidp5045
Posted on: America Online

Also remember the conversation the captian had with “Kosh”. Kosh may not always be the same Vorlon
each time Kosh comes back. I also think it is unfair to refer to Kosh as “him”.

Subj:: The outcome of it all
Date: 12/10/95 3:17:52 AM
From: Davidp5045
Posted on: America Online

The Vorlons are the key to the survival of the universe

Subj:: THE WAR
Date: 12/10/95 3:42:52 AM
From: Joker2126
Posted on: America Online

I HAVEN’T REALY KEPT UP WITH THE WAR. COULD SOMEONE PLEASE TELL BRING ME UP
TO SPEED ON THE WAR.

Subj:: Re:THE WAR
Date: 12/10/95 7:17:45 AM
From: LarryP13
Posted on: America Online

They blewup, he blew up, they blew up again, he blew someone up again, you know, etc

Subj:: Good or Bad?
Date: 12/10/95 8:57:29 AM
From: Rushylon 5
Posted on: America Online

What exactly has Kosh done that is so good?

Let’s see:

1. He eliminates the chance for humans to achieve virtual immortality
2. He intimidates (sp?) everyone that is around him
3. He scares everyone that is around him
4. He doesn’t seem to care, and, in fact, takes somes pleasure in the fact that #2 and #3 happen

Gee, he sounds like a great guy. Yes, I know he saved Sheridans life, but if you were about to lose your
best soldier, wouldn’t you save him?

I’m not saying the Vorlons are good or bad, but knowing JMS, there must be something more behind the
Vorlons.

Rushylon 5

Subj:: Re:good v evil
Date: 12/10/95 4:32:58 PM
From: GONE CYBER
Posted on: America Online

<<<it is no accident that kosh assumes angelic form to retrieve and give life
to his messenger of good!>>>

You’re right. It is no accident. As it has been said many times before, the Vorlons drilled the association of
them with holiness into us so we would react favorably when we saw one(even Sheridan said this). If you
think that the fact that they look like angels is sybolic of them being holy, then you are wrong.

<<<it is extremely obvios that the vorlon(KOSH) IS GOOD and the shadows are the evil balance.>>>

Don’t be too sure. I’m sure we have learned that nothing is obvious in B5. After all, isn’t the “goodguys
against the badguys” thing getting a little trite? It’s much more interesting when the goodguy-badguy line
isn’t clearly defined. I don’t think one could assume that Vorlons=good and Shadows=evil at this time
because something here is definately fishy –

|\ / .\ o o o o
| | ( ><(((“> o o
|/ \ / ><(((“<
| / ><(((“< o
|/ ><(((“> ><(((“<
><(((“> ><(((“<

 
Subj:: Re:good v evil
Date: 12/12/95 1:29:57 AM
From: RYouExp1
Posted on: America Online

What are good and evil are they not the just two lovers holding hands in a park? These are human (Alien)
constucts. Vorlons and the Shadows are so beyond all the other races that they are giants among children.
To speculate on whether on is good and one is evil is irrelevant. The fact is the shadows seek the whole
universe for themselves and will use anyone to achieve there desires. Whatever they may be………. They
must be stoped!

Subj:: naked Kosh
Date: 12/12/95 7:04:39 AM
From: Cadife
Posted on: America Online

Could someone send me a summary of this story I missed it, thanks !!!!!!!!!

Subj:: Re:Vorlon/Shadow/others
Date: 12/13/95 8:06:13 PM
From: Thad25
Posted on: America Online

As far as this “Vorlon Programming” of humans and others goes, hogwash!!! The Vorlons are most
assuredly “good.” They would never have wasted their time deliberately altering other races to make
themselves “worshipped.” Most likely its a side affect. The human (or every other mortal species) mind
simply is awed by the presence of the Vorlon. They would never stoop to alter us.
The thought of humans destroying shadows or vorlons, much less both, is very amusing. Ridiculous is
probably more appropriate, though. LOL Not a chance! If any of the younger races were a threat to the
Vorlon, then they would have dusted us millenia ago. They would know, too. The Shadows cant destroy us
cause the Vorlons would rise against them, and the shadows have overestimated the Vorlons strength.
humans destroying Vorlons and Shadows… : )

Subj:: Re:good v evil
Date: 12/14/95 2:14:13 AM
From: Songokuten
Posted on: America Online

|\ / .\ o o o o
| | ( ><(((“> o o
|/ \ / ><(((“<
| / ><(((“< o
|/ ><(((“> ><(((“<
><(((“> ><(((“<

/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\//\/\/\//\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\\/

heheheh… look at the little fishies… not many fishies, just… (oh, do I even have to finish, or would that just
be pointlessly continuing when you already know what I’m getting at?…)
————————————————————————————————————————————

 

______________________
\ /
\———– ———–/
I O O O \ / O O O I
I O O O \ / O O O I
\ O O O \ / O O O /
\ ( /——\ ) /
\ \ \ / / /
\ \ / /
\ { } /
\ /
\ /
V
Subj:: Re:good v evil
Date: 12/14/95 2:52:03 AM
From: GONE CYBER
Posted on: America Online

______________________
\ /
\———– ———–/
I O O O \ / O O O I
I O O O \ / O O O I
\ O O O \ / O O O /
\ ( /——\ ) /
\ \ \ / / /
\ \ / /
\ { } /
\ /
\ /
V

WWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWW

Excuse my lack of imagination but..what is it?

 

P.S. – For my next act:
(“`-‘ ‘-/”) .___..–‘ ‘ “`-._
` Ø_ Ø ) `-. ( ) .`-.__. `)
(_Y_.) ‘ ._ ) `._` ; “ -. .-‘
_.. `–‘_..-_/ /–‘ _ .’ ,Æ
( i l ),-” ( l i),’ ( ( ! .-‘

P.P.S. – And you people thought we got off the topic of B5 in the themes and religion folders.

Subj:: Re:Friends or Foes?
Date: 12/17/95 7:26:45 AM
From: CynHicks
Posted on: America Online

The idea of the human encounter suit is interesting but feels somewhat off. In the epics where the forces of
good and evil “use” lesser beings, “evil” tends to posess/destroy and “good” joins with and enriches.

Check out various esotric spiritual “paths”. The Lyta/Kosh scene looked a lot like Satsang. Was Kosh
“meditating” Lyta–a part of her teaching? I’ve seen diagrams that looked a lot like that scene .

Subj:: Re:good v evil
Date: 12/17/95 11:22:42 PM
From: Songokuten
Posted on: America Online

>> (“`-‘ ‘-/”) .___..–‘ ‘ “`-._
` Ø_ Ø ) `-. ( ) .`-.__. `)
(_Y_.) ‘ ._ ) `._` ; “ -. .-‘
_.. `–‘_..-_/ /–‘ _ .’ ,Æ
( i l ),-” ( l i),’ ( ( ! .-‘

P.P.S. – And you people thought we got off the topic of B5 in the themes and religion folders.<<

It was supposed to be a Shadow, albeit a badly drawn one…

Subj:: Re:Kosh? — And Lyta…
Date: 12/19/95 1:03:38 AM
From: DocRelayer
Posted on: America Online

The gills are probably why Dr. Franklin noticed a higher oxygen level in her bloodstream.
She was probably fitted with them when the Vorlons “repaired” her after picking her up. (Please note all
the other ways she was “better”…) Probably they let her breathe in the methane-heavy atmosphere Kosh
hides out in.

As for what that was streaming out…I agree. That was probably Kosh himself. After all, the Shadows
have probably figured out what the deal with him is, so he needs a new way to travel incognito. Obligingly,
Lyta turns up at the border. (Was she dead when they found her? We still don’t know all of what Vorlon
technology–or Kosh himself, for that matter–is capable of!)

Subj:: Re:Kosh?
Date: 12/20/95 2:01:46 AM
From: DPayne2687
Posted on: America Online

FIRST TIME DOING THIS – DOES THE VORLON SHIP HAVE A SYMBIOTIC RELATIONSHIP
WITH THE AMBASSADOR? WHAT IS THE RELATIONSHIP BETWEEN DELEEN AND KOSH?
KOSH SEEMS DISAPPOINTED WITH SHERIDIAN. wHY?
Subj:: Re:Vorlons and Kosh
Date: 12/20/95 2:09:42 AM
From: DPayne2687
Posted on: America Online

I AGREE WITH IRONKORBRA. I FEEL THAT KOSH IS MUCH MORE THAN “VORLON”. HIS
KNOWLEDGE OF THE SHADOWS IS TOO EXTENSIVE TO BELONG TO SUCH A SECRETIVE
RACE .

Subj:: B5
Date: 12/20/95 9:39:53 PM
From: BJacobs105
Posted on: America Online

B5 SUCKS

Subj:: Re:B5
Date: 12/21/95 1:39:25 AM
From: Songokuten
Posted on: America Online

You need help

Subj:: Re:good v evil
Date: 12/21/95 3:18:10 AM
From: GONE CYBER
Posted on: America Online

<<<It was supposed to be a Shadow, albeit a badly drawn one…>>>

OH YES OF COURSE…it’s suddenly much clearer now. Thanx.

Subj:: Re:B5
Date: 12/21/95 7:03:00 PM
From: RuaxKodesh
Posted on: America Online

Your opinion is noted. Why did you bother coming all the way in here to express it?

Subj:: Re:Vorlons and Kosh
Date: 12/21/95 11:01:31 PM
From: RARIVERA
Posted on: America Online

IronKobra says:
” Didn’t Delenn say that Kosh was the *last and only* one of the “First Ones” left on this side of the rim? If
so, doesn’t that imply that the Vorlons are *not* whatever Kosh is”

It has been understood that the Vorlons are indeed an ancient race, evolved during the last epoch of star
formation. They are at least 5 billion years old. They pass for corporeal beings but are clearly semi-divine
energy beings.

When Kosh exposed himself in order to save the commander, all beings saw him as a personification of
their own species. They each saw a different face. The being was clearly angelic in nature and
incorporeal.

Subj:: Re:good v evil
Date: 12/21/95 11:09:20 PM
From: Songokuten
Posted on: America Online

>>OH YES OF COURSE…it’s suddenly much clearer now. Thanx<<
Well, it looks like a Shadow on my computer, but when I print it out…..

Subj:: Re:Vorlons and Kosh
Date: 12/21/95 11:13:57 PM
From: Songokuten
Posted on: America Online

>>When Kosh exposed himself in order to save the commander, all beings saw him as a personification of
their own species. They each saw a different face. The being was clearly angelic in nature and
incorporeal. <<
pardon me, but….
HAHAHAHAHAHAH!!!!
Angelic?… more like “powerfully telepathic”! That’s why everyone saw their own race; they were seeing
what Kosh(or other Vorlons) programmed them to see!
And it has never been stated that they are even slightly incorporeal; they appear to be energy based, but
that doesn’t even mean “incorporeal”.
They are HARDLY divine beings! Horrible manipulators, bending peoples’ wills to their own purposes, is
closer.

Subj:: My two cents …
Date: 12/22/95 2:55:15 AM
From: Fuyunokaze
Posted on: America Online

I submit that if Kosh was not a Vorlon, why would he be their ambassador to B5? Is it (Kosh) just hiding
out in an encounter suit, fooling even Vorlons that it is one of their own; following some immortal agenda?
Probably not, but this is SciFi, anything goes. With respects to his moral disposition, I’m sure that after 5
million years the Vorlon probably have a successful strategy for dealing with upstart races that removes any
threat. If that means manipulating a few brain cells or zapping a few beings into slag then they probably
feel justified in doing so. It is the survival of their whole race at stake. Kosh may be at B5 to keep an eye
or three on their new project, humans.

Subj:: My own opinion
Date: 12/23/95 10:32:38 AM
From: Marc112345
Posted on: America Online

I believe the Vorlons to be an race of superior beings whom have evolved as by chance or by definitive
choices that have inspired them. Their singular presense here with the newer races could be of a caretaker
nature. As in the “Prime Directive” of the Star Trek Series (Please don’t accuse me of treason!) They may
not interfere in the natural development of the younger races, but must counter-balance the interference of
the Shadows (Technically of their time and abilities.).

I feel the Vorlons are spiritual in nature and their race progressed to the next level of existance, beyond the
Rim. Kosh is after all, an Ambasador. And he is a representative of his people but not necessary a
representing his people. I find no conflict with these beliefs and what I have seen on the show.

Perhaps the key to understanding the show in part, is to look at the biblical perspective.

Subj:: Re:Kosh?
Date: 12/24/95 8:01:15 AM
From: Moagie01
Posted on: America Online

Does all this mean that Jesus-if you believe in him-was a Vorlon?

Subj:: Re:How did it start?
Date: 12/29/95 8:55:36 AM
From: Jess0110
Posted on: America Online

truth about vorlons ? what are thay

Subj:: Re:How did it start?
Date: 12/29/95 11:34:26 PM
From: Songokuten
Posted on: America Online

They started as… I don’t know.. But they are now… Does anyone know?

They’re just bad evangelists

Subj:: Re:How did it start?
Date: 1/1/96 8:00:23 PM
From: MBoscia
Posted on: America Online

I dn’t think Vorlons need to be divine to explain their physics. Rather, they could be humanoids that have
excaped the three-dimensional bonds resricting the existence of we simple homosapian.

Subj:: Re:How did it start?
Date: 1/1/96 8:37:07 PM
From: RPillow
Posted on: America Online

MBoscia, it’s nice to see that someone else out there has finally gotten quite close to getting the right answer
as to what the Vorlons actually are. I won’t tell you how close or how far you really are from the truth
because that would only spoil the events that are still to be unveiled on B5, but congratulations! I was
beginning to think that I was the only person who had overcome their fear or need to rationalize things far
enough to be able to see the simple truth.

RPillow

Subj:: Re:Friends or Foes?
Date: 1/2/96 4:28:17 AM
From: Episkapose
Posted on: America Online

Personally, I thought that the Vorlons are just the light, the same way that the Shadow are the Shadow.
After all, the encounters I’ve seen with Kosh have protrayed him as simply a very bright light wearing a
funny suit. I figured that the Vorlons are just the Light that casts the Shadow. Perhaps the shadow are
“fallen” Vorlons like in the story of Lucifer and the other fallen angels. after all, the Shadow have exhibited
traits that we attribute to the fallen angels. Namely, they lie and deceive to get people to fight each other
and to bring out the worst in us. And they will only fight when they will not be seen. etc…

Subj:: Re:Vorlons and Shadows…
Date: 1/2/96 5:25:28 AM
From: InstrMechE
Posted on: America Online

We have had hints that the Shadows would react violently and precipitously if either of two things
happened:
– their existence became known
– one of the ‘elder races’ was found to exist
Both of these events have happened, it is now obvious that they must move rapidly to break whatever forces
can be mustered against them. At the same time, Kosh must be limited by his exposure suit, otherwise he
would have been detected by Morden a long time ago. His existence must have been a surprise to the
Shadows.

Subj:: Re:How did it start?
Date: 1/3/96 7:56:37 PM
From: Songokuten
Posted on: America Online

RPillow, [sorry for asking] but who was your message to? just curious
Curiousity killed the Keffer

Subj:: Re:How did it start?
Date: 1/4/96 2:24:19 AM
From: RPillow
Posted on: America Online

Songokuten,

I honestly don’t remember who I was explaining that to, sorry. Did you find that post to your liking?

RPillow

Subj:: Re:Vorlons and Kosh
Date: 1/5/96 3:47:19 PM
From: Blac Abbot
Posted on: America Online

As I recall, it was explained that Kosh is not a Vorlon but a member of a race older than the present
universe who survived a previous shadow war and lives with the Vorlons ( the oldest race of this universe)
as a sort of sentinal awaiting the shadows return. I suspect this time around, however, Kosh is not long for
this world (ala Ben Kenobi).

Subj:: Re:Kosh? — And Lyta…
Date: 1/5/96 4:08:51 PM
From: Blac Abbot
Posted on: America Online

Rather curious Dr Franklin missed those gills during his examination. Its not like he overlooked an odd
chromosome or new brainwave pattern or something—we’re talking overlooking something like a second
set of lungs here! I believe the gills will eventuallly (if not already) allow Lyta (Vorlon wannabe) to exist in
Kosh’s environment without a mask (Kosh really doesn’t need his, it’s just to conceal his appearance). As for
Lyta’s purpose…she’s another human agent able to move about B5 without drawing the attention that a
Vorlon in an encounter suit would. Plus the fact she’s pyschic, well that’s added bonus.
As to the good or evil of the vorlons…they’re a race like any other trying to survive a hostile universe. It
would be difficult to apply human viewpoints or value systems to a totally alien race. Their *good* might
be manipulating less advanced races so that they never become a threat they, the vorlons, have to destroy.
Now whether that’s good or evil by human standards… or Minbari…or Centauri????

Subj:: Re:Vorlons and Kosh
Date: 1/6/96 2:29:10 AM
From: MythoPhile
Posted on: America Online

<<As I recall, it was explained that Kosh is not a Vorlon but a member of a race older than the present
universe who survived a previous shadow war and lives with the Vorlons>>
I think you’re mixing up Kosh and Galactus…

Subj:: Re:Vorlons and Kosh
Date: 1/6/96 6:22:37 AM
From: LuvB5
Posted on: America Online

The question is, did the Vorlons establish the legend of angels on Earth, or did they just use
an existing mythos? Either way it would seem they have been manipulating humans since
pre-history. If this is true, how can they be trusted to be telling the truth at any time? From
his actions Kosh ( the Vorlons??) seem to be anything but altruistic. This is not a point against
them, in combat heroism and altruism will get you killed. Sheridans cynical mistrust of their
motives and purpose would be a wise attitude for all involved. Garabaldi has the correct point of
view….Don`t believe anybody.

Subj:: Re:Vorlons and Kosh
Date: 1/6/96 5:11:25 PM
From: Mario13
Posted on: America Online

Rarivera was the first I’ve come across to understand just WHAT the Vorlons are. (Thank you). Was it
really so hard to figure out that the Vorlons are an angelic race that have probably guided human
development over the millenia, as they have done for other races? I would image that they are both
corporeal and spirit. They certainly transcend our notions of what is good and what is evil, but we definitely
would prefer to have them on our side.

Subj:: Re:Vorlons and Kosh
Date: 1/7/96 4:56:10 AM
From: RPillow
Posted on: America Online

Mario13,

JMS has stated many times that the Vorlons are NOT angels. They do, however, have the ability to take on
many different forms (or at least make others perceive them as being able to take on many different forms
through their advanced telepathic abilities). What they actually are has more to do with souls, light, and
music. The truth about them is simpler than what you stated in your post. Good guess, though.

RPillow

Subj:: Vorlon agenda
Date: 1/7/96 10:30:27 PM
From: SivaJohn1
Posted on: America Online

It is my observations that the Vorlons my be more than caretakers for the universe. The B5 episode with
the Inquisitor Sebastian, shows that the Vorlons have visited Earth (I think Sheridan mentioned this also)
and may indeed take up “worthy” people for their own agenda. This agenda could be the whole Judge, Jury
and Exterminator side of the B5 universe, and element close to but not quite God like. I am willing to
accept that the previous inquisitions Sebastian has done have left a body count. To be broken in his
interrogations could easily lead to death, a weeding out, and the Vorlons don’t appear to be to concerned
about this.
The Vorlons observe races (definitely Earth is not alone in this) and pluck even the most hated people of
the time and “reconvert” them to act as heralds, or the incarnation of death. To say that the Vorlons or even
Kosh is a Christ or God being may be a bit extreme however, for he was easily near death in the pilot
episode (less his part was faked to get Lyta?) and needed immediate medical attention. My version of a God
being, even like Q of STNG, is that they don’t need medical attention because they can’t be harmed. The
real question may be, “Is anyone or anything above the Vorlons?”
A resounding issue by several characters in B5 episodes is that no one ever returns from “visiting”
Vorlon space. Lyta the telepath an exception, the others I feel are not killed, more to the point they may be
recruited (failure to be recruited may result in death to though) to continue service for the Vorlons.

Subj:: Re:Vorlons and Kosh
Date: 1/8/96 2:47:39 AM
From: JVibber
Posted on: America Online

<< As I recall, it was explained that Kosh is not a Vorlon but a member of a race older than the present
universe who survived a previous shadow war and lives with the Vorlons ( the oldest race of this universe)
as a sort of sentinal awaiting the shadows return. >>

This is probably one of the most-quoted misunderstandings about the B5 series. Apparently, they flubbed
the dialog and it got all the way to being broadcast. What the facts are SUPPOSED to be are:
1. Kosh is a Vorlon
2. Kosh is one of many Vorlons
3. The Vorlons are one of the old races who fought the Shadows in times past.
4. All the other races have passed beyond the Vale (note spelling), and the Vorlons are the only RACE that
is still here.

Unfortunately, the way the dialog was said, it sounded like Kosh was the last of the old ones, who might or
might not have been the Vorlons, and that he was the only of his people still remaining here (in this galaxy,
or on this plane of existence, or whatever). That’s the impression I got, too. However, JMS (the series
creator) has explained the flub and assured us all that Kosh is not the only one left of his race, he is a
Vorlon, etc. as above.

Subj:: Re:Vorlons and Kosh
Date: 1/8/96 2:49:59 AM
From: JVibber
Posted on: America Online

I seem to remember a comic strip character whose face we never saw. In one strip, his disguise was
removed, and one character was so amazed at who this person was that he fainted — or died, I forget which.
The comic character continued to interact with everybody else mysteriously, manipulating others for his
own ends. He claimed to be very powerful. But nobody ever saw him do any of the amazing things he
claimed to be able to do.

Perhaps some other people out there recall Vaughn Bode’s character: Cheech Wizard?

Subj:: Re:Search for Vorlons
Date: 1/8/96 7:39:08 PM
From: BryDano
Posted on: America Online

I am truly on a search for the Vorlon Home world. I look through ebry piece of research I have and need
momre. IF you can help in any fashion, please don’t hesitate, I need the information now. If it is true that
Vorlons are a speicies of Angels then our time to know about them is at hand. Thank you for anything you
can send in way of research.

Subj:: Re:Beyond the Veil
Date: 1/8/96 8:26:56 PM
From: TBrush1090
Posted on: America Online

I believe that when Delenn said the First Ones had passed beyond the Veil, I think she meant they all
journeyed out of the Milky Way Galaxy.

Subj:: Re:Search for Vorlons
Date: 1/8/96 9:55:40 PM
From: Dastari
Posted on: America Online

>I am truly on a search for the Vorlon Home world. I look through ebry piece of research I have and need
momre. IF you can help in any fashion, please don’t hesitate, I need the information now. If it is true that
Vorlons are a speicies of Angels then our time to know about them is at hand. Thank you for anything you
can send in way of research.<

If you don’t get help at Charter, please…get help somewhere.

*DASTARI*

Subj:: Re:Beyond the Veil
Date: 1/9/96 4:42:15 AM
From: JVibber
Posted on: America Online

<< I believe that when Delenn said the First Ones had passed beyond the Veil, I think she meant they all
journeyed out of the Milky Way Galaxy. >>

I thought the phrase was “beyond the Veil” also. However, shortly after the episode aired, somebody
posted that he had watched the show with the Closed Caption mode on his TV set — apparently he liked to
do that to make sure he didn’t miss anything. While the people who write CCs aren’t always 100% word for
word accurate, this guy noticed that the captions spelled the word “VALE” not “VEIL.” Make of that
whatever you wish.

As to WHERE they went, I suspect that’s bound up very tightly with where the B5 story arc is going. Who
knows, maybe we’ll find out!

Subj:: Re:Vorlons & Shadows
Date: 1/10/96 1:54:56 AM
From: ABurroughs
Posted on: America Online

I think a lot of you are thinking this

Subj:ect through a little too hard. After watching B-5 for some time now, I’ve come to these conclusions.

1. The Vorlons are just another race of beings. They have not been “charged” with maintaining the galaxy
for the good of all. They help when it’s needed or convenient for them to do so. A trait that’s not unlike what
the humans do.
2. Kosh is a Vorlon. Lyta is not an “encounter suit” to be used by Kosh.
3. Has anyone noticed how much Kosh’s ship looks like a squid? Ever considered that the Vorlon
homeworld may be underwater, why else would anyone need gills? They may have altered Lyta to enable
her to survive unaided on their world.
4. The Vorlons have altered our society from the beginning. Maybe they are “angels” and maybe the
Shadows are “demons”, either way, yes we have been manipulated. So what, we’d do it to better our cause.
At least the Vorlons appear to be helpful when needed.
5. Good or bad, the Shadows are out to destory us and the Vorlons appear to be preventing that. Sounds
good to me.
One more thing. A race that’s as ancient and advanced as the Vorlons would be very vast by now. Maybe
they out-grew there world and a portion of them left to colonize another world outside of the rim.

Subj:: Re:Vorlons as “angels”
Date: 1/10/96 2:23:47 AM
From: ABurroughs
Posted on: America Online

By the way. When I stated that the Vorlons are probably “angels”, I did not mean beings of spirit. I meant
they make us perceive them as spiritual beings. I think they are just as real (vulnerable) as we are. Same
goes for the Shadows.

Subj:: Re:Search for Vorlons
Date: 1/10/96 2:42:28 AM
From: RPillow
Posted on: America Online

BryDano,

In 2011 you will have your answer……….

RPillow

Subj:: Re:Beyond the Veil
Date: 1/10/96 2:44:15 AM
From: RPillow
Posted on: America Online

TBrush1090,

That is correct, the Ancients and/or First Ones merely traveled out beyond the Milky Way galaxy. They are
not dead as some people have guessed. It is highly probable that they are all immortal like the Vorlons. We
will see them again soon.

RPillow

Subj:: Re:Vorlons
Date: 1/11/96 3:45:11 AM
From: IronKobra
Posted on: America Online

Since my name was mentioned earlier, I just want to say again that I really like my Unified Vorlon Theory
and it was much too young to die such a horrible death.

::IronKobra wanders off, pouting and acting generally immature::

:-)

Don
Subj:: Re:Vorlons
Date: 1/12/96 11:52:06 PM
From: RPillow
Posted on: America Online

IronKobra,

I missed your Unified Vorlon Theory, as I was off working on a theory about the 3 Ages of Mankind. I
would like to hear your theory. You can E-mail me at RPillow@aol.com. I am very interested in what you
think about one of B5’s most mysterious races.

RPillow

Subj:: Re:Search for Vorlons
Date: 1/13/96 1:18:05 AM
From: Songokuten
Posted on: America Online

>>In 2011 you will have your answer……….<<
The Monolith ?

 

Subj:: Re:Search for Vorlons
Date: 1/15/96 5:14:08 AM
From: RPillow
Posted on: America Online

Songokuten,

Whatever you wish to call it, but a great change IS coming.

RPillow

Subj:: Re:Search for Vorlons
Date: 1/15/96 11:16:35 PM
From: Songokuten
Posted on: America Online

And what would that be?
Are the Greys/Zeta Reticulans bringing this change about?

Subj:: Re:Search for Vorlons
Date: 1/16/96 6:58:32 PM
From: RPillow
Posted on: America Online

Songokuten,

Do some research on Atlantis.

RPillow

Subj:: Re:Vorlons and Shadows…
Date: 1/19/96 8:15:18 PM
From: Blaze754
Posted on: America Online

I dissagree with ken.
Lyta was much to eager to do whatever she did with him. And he did it almost as a favor to her.
Therefore I think that it was more to her benifit than his. Although I have no Idea of what she did.

Subj:: Re:Friends or Foes?
Date: 1/19/96 8:20:25 PM
From: Blaze754
Posted on: America Online

Delen said that the Shadow’s are far older than any other race. Therefore they are either at the same time
or older than the vorlons which dissagees with Nermiester’s definition of the vorlons.

Subj:: Re:Vorlons and Shadows…
Date: 1/19/96 8:35:05 PM
From: Blaze754
Posted on: America Online

The vorlons have a great sence of justice, as shown through the Inquisitor. He said that they belive that the
each person is equal, that no person is important enough to take another’s life. Meanwhile the shadows are
simply guns for hire, fighting wars for other races. *perhaps weakening the univers for a takeover* Also
both the inquisitor and Lyta said that they were on the vorlon homeworld which would seem to prove that
there are more than one of them.
Also only one person has ever actually seen the true form of a vorlon. When cosh showed himself
everyone saw something else, and he was tired, or draind, afterwards becuase he made so many phycic
prejections at the same time. The only one to truly see him was the Phycic who saw him once he was
unconcious. And she left immidiately afterwards.
Kosh also got a message from his ship, which would also imply that there are more Vorlons.

Subj:: Re:Vorlons and Kosh
Date: 1/19/96 8:38:19 PM
From: Blaze754
Posted on: America Online

Dear David,
Kosh answered that by asuring him that it is tthe same Kosh. Why would he lie?

Subj:: Re:Good or Bad?
Date: 1/19/96 8:41:42 PM
From: Blaze754
Posted on: America Online

Dear Rushylon,
Lets not forget that to gain immortality for all humans half of them would have to be killed. Think of
how barbarric humans would have become.
*is immortality such a good thing*
If I was in Kosh’s shoes I would have done the same thing>

Subj:: Re:How did it start?
Date: 1/19/96 8:51:25 PM
From: Blaze754
Posted on: America Online

*Food for thought*
Perhaps Kosh is a shadow. He ralies everyone against the shadows so that they (the shadows) can beat all
of thier enemies in one battle. And we know that the can beat anyone they fight. While the shadows
infultrate other gvt’s through corruption.
Gatta go……..more later

Subj:: Re:How did it start?
Date: 1/19/96 11:57:14 PM
From: RPillow
Posted on: America Online

Blaze754,

JMS has stated many times that Kosh is NOT a Shadow. I am interested in where you got the idea that for
all of humanity to gain immortality, half of us would have to die. As for the Vorlons, there’s a LOT more of
them where Kosh came from. The Encyclopedia Xenobioligica states that the Vorlons occupy a huge part
of the Milky Way, more than any other species that we have encountered so far. They are, however,
connected by soul and mind. That’s probably why Kosh’s “voice” sounds like the voice of many beings.
More on this later………..

RPillow

Subj:: Re:Vorlons and Kosh
Date: 1/19/96 11:58:21 PM
From: RPillow
Posted on: America Online

Blaze754,

I believe his exact words were, “I have always been here.”

RPillow

Subj:: Re:Search for Vorlons
Date: 1/20/96 2:35:50 AM
From: Songokuten
Posted on: America Online

>>Do some research on Atlantis.<<
A mythological continent that sunk into the sea? What does that have to do with the topic?
Was it a Shadow base, do you suppose? 😉

Subj:: Kosh is really a…
Date: 1/20/96 3:29:09 AM
From: Mithfan
Posted on: America Online

I would like to put forth my theory that Kosh is really a…



(spoiler space)








… a woman.
These are the reasons I believe Kosh is a woman:
1. Kosh never gives a straight answer. Well, okay, rarely gives a straight answer.
2. Kosh rarely ever makes any sense.
3. Kosh drives men, particularly Capt. Sheridan, crazy.
4. Only women would share their feelings with each other as Kosh did with Lyta Alexander.

If anyone has any other proofs, I would be happy to hear them.

Mithfan

Subj:: Re:Kosh is really a…
Date: 1/20/96 9:34:54 PM
From: Forrie2
Posted on: America Online

(Hello, I’m new here…)

Well, given the nature of Kosh… or at least what we know… it could very well be that he’s androgenous in
nature. Now I don’t want to speculate on the mating habits of Vorlons :-)

I have taken note of the subtle themes in the storyline of Babylon 5 that coincide with some of our real-life
religious/mysticism beliefs… and this makes for an excellent means to expound upon the

Subj:ect area. I’m most appreciative of Kosh, and think I developed an “opinion” about what he might be,
prior to the enounter suit episode (quite a great performance). Delenn is most elegant and compliments
Kosh’s role, I believe.

RPillow: I presume you’re somehow connected with official BAB5 business? Would love to chat with you.

I just read through the recent messages about speculation of what Kosh is… I agree more with the concept
that they (Vorlons) are a race who have evolved in such a way as to exist in a means beyond space-time as
we know it. Quite literally, with a raised conciousness.

And with all this local (real) theory about UFOs and their role in our past… who knows? We might really
have a race similar in nature to Vorlons who have been visiting us all along.

Great postings… love to hear more. Is there an official BAB5 chat night?

(sorry for the long message)

Forrie2
Subj:: Re:How did it start?
Date: 1/21/96 3:26:21 AM
From: Blaze754
Posted on: America Online

In responce to what RPillow said ,
You obviosly didn’t pay attension that episode. The main ingrediant for the immortality serum had to be
taken directly from a human corps. Meaning you had to kill someone.

Subj:: Re:Vorlons and Kosh
Date: 1/21/96 3:27:28 AM
From: Blaze754
Posted on: America Online

sorry

Subj:: Re:Kosh is really a…
Date: 1/21/96 3:29:44 AM
From: Blaze754
Posted on: America Online

dear Mithfan,
you forgot how somehow dilen always understands him the way only women understand eachother.

*P.S. I do not agree with you*

Subj:: Re:Kosh is really a…
Date: 1/21/96 6:38:50 AM
From: Mithfan
Posted on: America Online

Thank you for pointing that particular argument out for me Balze754. I didn’t think of that one. However, I
shouldn’t be taken too seriously in regards to that theory. My girlfriend and I were having a debate as to
what Kosh really is and we started getting silly. That’s where the theory came from.

Mithfan

Subj:: Re:How did it start?
Date: 1/22/96 4:44:15 AM
From: MythoPhile
Posted on: America Online

<<The main ingrediant for the immortality serum had to be taken directly from a human corps.>>
Talk about poor planning! All those Markabs gave their lives for nothing! Next time get there quicker,
earthforce…

Subj:: Lita’s gills
Date: 1/22/96 3:24:40 PM
From: AstroNomi
Posted on: America Online

When ever any one else is inside Kosh’s quarters they have to wear an oxygen mask. So it’s to be assumed
that Vorlons breathe methane or some other gas(or at least exist in it). Going back to the very first pilot
episode, G’kar had gills surgically implanted so he could breathe methane air without the aid of an oxygen
mask. And since Lita was on the Vorlon homeworld she probably had gills implanted for the same reason.

Subj:: vorlons are cool
Date: 1/23/96 12:35:53 AM
From: DoomL73004
Posted on: America Online

VORLONS ARE COOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Babylon 5 Message Center /Vorlons
Subj:: Re:Vorlons and Shadows…
Date: 1/23/96 3:39:19 AM
From: Forrie2
Posted on: America Online

Regarding Kosh’s MO… at least from my perspective, from some of the things he has said and done, it
seems indicative that he exists on different time levels or dimensions simultaneously, perhaps with an active
perspective into time that we (humans/mortals) might not comprehend. Assuming that this perspective can
see what is likely to happen, and he acts accordingly… perhaps with selfish pretense, but can we really draw
that conclusion at this point without more established facts?

I think your point, however, is quite observant–it has piqued my curiousity. I would be curious about what
other people think of this.

Forrie

 
Subj:: Kosh’s role as ambassador.
Date: 1/23/96 3:43:12 AM
From: Forrie2
Posted on: America Online

Forgive me for not recalling this… however, I’ve forgotten the pretense by which it was agreed that Kosh
would be provided as an ambassador to Babylon 5. I understand there was some hesitance; however, given
some of the previous comments, it seems that this serves also as a “strategic” placement of sorts.

Any spoilers about whether Kosh will remain the only Vorlon to visit Babylon5? Is it possible that others
have, under different circumstances–in disguise? For that matter, what about the Shadows. How are
Delenn, et al, certain that the Shadows are unaware of whether or not it is known they are lurking?

:-)

Forrie
Subj:: Re:Search for Vorlons
Date: 1/24/96 3:28:11 AM
From: RPillow
Posted on: America Online

Songokuten,

You haven’t done a bit of research on Atlantis, have you? Anybody could tell me that Atlantis was a
mythological continent that sunk in the sea. You’re missing the whole point. I’m trying to help you open
your mind to other possibilities. What I meant was find out more about the Atlantean people. Let me know
what you find out. Later. :-)

RPillow

Subj:: Re:Kosh is really a…
Date: 1/24/96 3:30:19 AM
From: RPillow
Posted on: America Online

Mithfan,

I sincerely hope that you are joking.

RPillow

Subj:: Re:Kosh is really a…
Date: 1/24/96 3:33:13 AM
From: RPillow
Posted on: America Online

Forrie2,

Would it surprise you if I told you that I am in no way connect to official BAB5 business? I’m not. I am,
however, a collector of information and knowledge…..for the future. One voice among billions. I just make
it a point to know my stuff. I would enjoy chatting with you sometime. You can catch me in the Eclipse
Cafe this Saturday night, probably around 10:00. Hope to see you there! :-)

RPillow

Subj:: Re:How did it start?
Date: 1/24/96 3:35:35 AM
From: RPillow
Posted on: America Online

Blaze754,

Do you know for a fact that the main ingredient for the immortality serum could not have been taken from a
live human? Perhaps I did not pay close enough attention to “Deathwalker” or perhaps I just forgot. Either
way, that is why I was asking you.

RPillow

Subj:: Re:How did it start?
Date: 1/25/96 6:34:18 AM
From: JVibber
Posted on: America Online

RPillow
<<Do you know for a fact that the main ingredient for the immortality serum could not have been taken
from a live human? Perhaps I did not pay close enough attention to “Deathwalker” or perhaps I just
forgot.>>

The serum was specifically designed by DeathWalker as her “revenge” against all those goody-goodies who
were against her and her race’s use of sentient people for biological experiments. She specifically designed
it so it would require someone to die so that another could live forever — that way, people would start huge
wars against each other to get the necessary ingredient for the serum. And she would sit back, watch, and
laugh.

Subj:: Re:Vorlons and Shadows…
Date: 1/26/96 12:55:05 AM
From: Blaze754
Posted on: America Online

Dear Ladypomona,
The part about jack seems the most just thing ever thought of to punish criminals. Instead of killing
him, erasing his memories (like Earth does in the show), or imprisoning him, you give him hundreds of
years in suspended animation to contimplate his actions. You force him to understand that his blood is no
reder than anyone eles’s. Then from time to time you send him out to show this to other people who think
that they are also special.

Subj:: Re:How did it start?
Date: 1/26/96 12:59:22 AM
From: Blaze754
Posted on: America Online

RPillow

I am positive that is what it said in the episode,
that whas one of the problems with the immortality
serum.

Blaze
Subj:: Re:Search for Vorlons
Date: 1/26/96 11:34:31 PM
From: Songokuten
Posted on: America Online

>> What I meant was find out more about the Atlantean people. Let me know what you find out. Later. :-
)<<
I happen to know a little about the Atlantis myth… The Atlantians (or should I call them Muans?) had a (I
believe) Greek-like culture full of mythology (mythology for a myth… interesting). Supposedly the Island-
nation sank from volcanic activity, or something like that. Then there are rediculous stories about them
surviving or evolving under water, but there are so many different versions that it really is impossible to
come up with anything cohesive between them.

Subj:: Re:Search for Vorlons
Date: 1/27/96 1:36:11 AM
From: MythoPhile
Posted on: America Online

And here I always thought that the Atlantis story was a fictional one written by Plato with absolutely no
evidence that he was citing any pre-existing myth…

Subj:: Re:Search for Vorlons
Date: 1/27/96 7:19:33 PM
From: ExCretan
Posted on: America Online

<< And here I always thought that the Atlantis story was a fictional one written by Plato with absolutely
no evidence that he was citing any pre-existing myth…>>
Really ? *I* thought that it was based on what happened to Thera, now called Santorini – Greek island that
went kablooie in c. 3000B.C.
(Ever hear of Krakatoa? Thera’s explosion was at least an order of magnitude bigger…)
If you’re in the area, go there – parts of it look like any other greek isle, but where the center of the island
used to be are cliffs down about 2000 feet to the sea; you can see fragments of the rest of the island across
the crater that was caused by the explosion – they’re about 5 miles away or so, though…
I’ve heard other theories that tie the explosion in with the events in Exodus, especially the “pillar of smoke”
by day and of fire by night.
But all I know for sure is that it’s a pretty impressive sight…
Pat

Subj:: Vorlons: Good or Bad
Date: 1/27/96 8:29:48 PM
From: CamiMJ
Posted on: America Online

I think it’s a bit simplistic to tag them as Good or Evil. They are so much older than the other races that I
don’t think we have the right to decide that. The Vorlons may not have been made caretakers but instead
have taken it upon themselves to manage things for the greater good. As a parent I can relate to this; many
times we do things for the good of our children that they don’t yet understand (and get called good or bad
depending on how they see it), but we know that when they reach maturity they’ll see why things were done
this way.

Subj:: Re:Search for Vorlons
Date: 1/28/96 12:14:54 AM
From: MythoPhile
Posted on: America Online

<<Really ? *I* thought that it was based on what happened to Thera, now called Santorini – Greek island
that went kablooie in c. 3000B.C.>>
Actually, it was 1628 B.C. But who’s counting? 😉 And the identification of the the Atlantis myth with
Minoan civilization is a modern one.

Subj:: Re:Search for Vorlons
Date: 1/28/96 5:54:41 AM
From: RPillow
Posted on: America Online

Songokuten,

Did you know that there is a great deal of evidence that suggests that Atlantis actually existed off the cost of
what we today know as Bimini? The Atlanteans left artifacts behind when their continent sunk, some of
which have been found and are still around today. See if you can find an old book called “The Skull
Speaks.”

RPillow

Subj:: Re:Search for Vorlons
Date: 1/30/96 4:58:39 AM
From: Forrie2
Posted on: America Online

There was a special on the Discovery Channel called “Searching for Lost Worlds” last night which showed
some recent research by a scientist (?) who unearthed some buildings in a place called Crete (sp?). Much of
this fits descriptions set forth by Plato in his story… anyways, they found several connections.

Now: connecting this to Vorlons (*ahem!* :-) As for greater good is concerned, isn’t that all a matter of
perspective? I’m tantalized by thoughts of things that humans can’t comprehend (that’s keeps many things
mystifying to our minds) but honestly, it seems that a society that is purported to have been as advanced as
the Atlanteans would most surely have affected the rest of the world and their technology would have been
known.

The light bulb was invented in the USA… now look where it’s gone.

What I’m saying is that I it difficult, as someone pointed out, to find cohesion between the myths and stories
that have been passed down from generation to generation.

But imagine a culture such as the Vorlons–perhaps the present day Alien phenomena could be compared to
a Vorlon type presense? There are a lot of parallels in some of the stories of abductions I’ve read. I keep an
open mind.

Forrie2

Subj:: Re:Vorlons and Shadows…
Date: 1/31/96 4:11:07 AM
From: Bela nocte
Posted on: America Online

Hello, I just found this area. This is my first post.
In reply to LadyShadow’s comment about the justice of the inquisitor, and asking about the Vorlon’s sense
of justice.

When i saw that episode, i rather thought that the whole inquisitional state was to prove to Deleen herself,
the depth of her committment.
thanks,
bells

Subj:: oophs
Date: 1/31/96 4:17:21 AM
From: Bela nocte
Posted on: America Online

I have shadows on the brain after reading all these posts.
My apologies Lady Pomona.
bells

Subj:: Technology Observations
Date: 2/1/96 7:41:53 AM
From: Pascal86
Posted on: America Online

I have been wondering about vorlons tech. I belive they have some kind of prime directive where they
dont show off some of there high tech stuff to less advanced species(such as everone else). This would
answer questions like why do they still use hyperspace? Any others?

Subj:: Re:Search for Vorlons
Date: 2/2/96 3:04:22 AM
From: Ynacio
Posted on: America Online

RPillow and Songo, (can I call you Songo?)

Have either of you read or otherwise heard about Marion Zimmer Bradley’s ideas about Atlantis? Bradley
apparently spent a lot of time with a group of Wiccans . . .

Anyway, does anyone out there (in here?) have any theories about the new tidbits of info about the Vorlons
we saw (or will see) this week in “Voices of Authority?”

Subj:: Re:Vorlons and Shadows…
Date: 2/3/96 12:39:04 AM
From: LadyPomona
Posted on: America Online

Since Kosh’s stated purpose of the inquisition (to test Delenn’s loyalty – which had never been in
question!) was clearly a cover, I agree that he definitely had another purpose in mind …and yes, he MIGHT
have wanted her to recognize the depth of her commitment (and her willingness to die to protect others –
such as Lennier and Sheridan.) But was that commitment ever really in question – in either her mind or that
of anyone else? As to her role as the Chosen One, have we ever seen any suggestion that she uses that to
assume an attitude of superiority, arrogance, hubris or special privilege? Not in the shows I’ve seen! So
why did Kosh find it necessary to go to
that extreme? And does he routinely send Jack the Ripper to torture others “for their own good”?!
Don’t get me wrong – I very much enjoy the episodes featuring Kosh. But after all the speculation about “is
he really an angel”, I find myself wondering if the darker side of his character (which we’ve seen at least
twice) is being forgotten or rationalized away too easily…
No apology necessary for the “Lady Shadow” mixup – actually, that’s quite a name! Perhaps we’ll see it
turn up on the message boards one of these days!

Subj:: that psi-fella?
Date: 2/3/96 1:23:08 AM
From: ChrisMaTix
Posted on: America Online

It looks like the Vorlons aren’t the last of the First Ones anymore. They’re all out there sleeping in their
little corner. Did anyone see the last episode?
Does anyone remember the Psi-fella who was being chased by psi-cops and went incorporeal when his
psychic evelution took him beyond the need for a body? He looks a lot like what we saw of Kosh.
Anyhow, I was just wondering if there’s any link here. Someone bring me up to speed on whats been
happening. I’ve missed so much in the last few months. E-mail me please with a Synopsis!!!!!!
Chris

Subj:: Re:Search for Vorlons
Date: 2/3/96 2:59:55 AM
From: Songokuten
Posted on: America Online

>>Songokuten,

Did you know that there is a great deal of evidence that suggests that Atlantis actually existed off the cost of
what we today know as Bimini? The Atlanteans left artifacts behind when their continent sunk, some of
which have been found and are still around today. See if you can find an old book called “The Skull
Speaks.”<<
Ok, I’ll check it out.

Subj:: Re:Search for Vorlons
Date: 2/3/96 3:04:03 AM
From: Songokuten
Posted on: America Online

>>RPillow and Songo, (can I call you Songo?)<<

Sure

>>Have either of you read or otherwise heard about Marion Zimmer Bradley’s ideas about Atlantis?
Bradley apparently spent a lot of time with a group of Wiccans . . .

Anyway, does anyone out there (in here?) have any theories about the new tidbits of info about the Vorlons
we saw (or will see) this week in “Voices of Authority?” <<

heheheh
Spoiler space for Voices of Authority

 
o o
O O
O O

o 0 O O 0 o
0 0

 

(If you saw VoA, you’d know what these are)

 
Last chance…

 
ok, that’s it…
WOW!! What a cool episode! I loved the humor, and the arc was definitely
advanced.

There are some things, however, that I need to expand on.
First: Did anyone else notice what the First-one hologram sounded like?
He and Kosh must have shopped at the same electronics store– I could swear
it was Ardwight Chamberlain’s voice!
And it is very interesting what the tetra-head-ron (look closely at the
first one, you’ll see what I mean) said. “Vorlon tabut natogg!” (I think)
is what it said. So where have we heard “natogg” before??
Try the teaser for And Now For a Word.
(was the acient one speaking Narn?)

The Shadows were able to send out there consciousness, too. Eerie. They
appeared as groups of eyes. BIG eyes.
So they must be telepathic, or have technology like the planet. Whatever
it is, it means that they’ve probably been monitorring B5 and Draal from the
start.

Did the paths between all living things make anybody else think of the
Minbari-Human soul thing? Could there be a connection? Is this a migration
route or something?

Ivanova was able to send her mind backward through time, hmm?
Maybe Zathras isn’t the one who pulled Babylon 4 through time… could he
just have been there to secure it while Ivanova retrieves it? A homing
beacon? Or was she seeing an after-image of some kind? (the radio signals
hint at this, but you never know).
I doubt that she had just caught up with the light that had bounced off
EarthForce 1last year; the slow turn would have been at least a lightyear in
radius if she had, and the image would be significantly fuzzy by then.

And what could the Vorlons have done to annoy the other First Ones so much?
I wonder if they might not have started the first Shadow war. Or perhaps
it’s a cold war deal.

I guess I’ll just have to keep watching to find out, right?
Subj:: Was that the Inquisitor??
Date: 2/3/96 3:08:53 AM
From: Songokuten
Posted on: America Online

I could SWEAR that I saw Wayne Alexander (aka Jack) in a commercial for the new Ellen
Degenerous/Bill Pullman movie. They showed him *twice*, and he was dressed like a priest or in a tux or
something. He had a semi-serious look on his face, and I immediately jumped up and hollered “Who are
you?”
I still can’t believe the Inquisitor is doing comedy!

Subj:: Re:Search for Vorlons
Date: 2/3/96 5:08:47 AM
From: RPillow
Posted on: America Online

Ynacio,

I would like to hear more about this Zimmer’s ideas about Atlantis. I am very interested in comparing them
to what I know of the legendary continent. By the way, there is a special coming on this sunday on NBC
called “Atlantis: In Search of a Lost Continent.” I don’t know where you live, but check your local listings
so that you can watch it.

RPillow

Subj:: Re:Atlantis
Date: 2/3/96 7:05:17 AM
From: JVibber
Posted on: America Online

I’ve always had the impression that the main problem with Atlantis was that people never could figure out
when it was on. Probably, it was a PTEN production. 😉

Subj:: Atlantis
Date: 2/3/96 8:56:41 PM
From: WifeAgain
Posted on: America Online

Stephen Lawhead had an interesting idea about Atlantis. If interested see his book Taliesin.

Subj:: Re:Atlantis
Date: 2/4/96 9:21:43 AM
From: YaxPac
Posted on: America Online

Loved Patrick Duffy and those webbed hands though!

Subj:: Re:Kosh?
Date: 2/6/96 9:41:45 AM
From: DDelaire
Posted on: America Online

If lyta is a new type of encounter suit for Kosh, or even the next stage in Human evo, a whole lot of humans
will need to visit the Vorlon Homeworld. And we all know how much they enjoy their privacy! Anyway it
goes I’m sure we’ll find out sooner or later
.

Subj:: Re:Kosh?
Date: 2/8/96 12:01:15 AM
From: ABurroughs
Posted on: America Online

DDelaire,

Lyta Alexander is not an encounter suit. She’s just a woman that has been modified to survive on the
Vorlon’s homeworld.

You people have been watching way-too-much StarTrek.

Subj:: Vorlons are Angels
Date: 2/12/96 5:37:51 AM
From: ComproSoft
Posted on: America Online
I believe that Kosh is essentially an angel, and the encounter suit covers him up, wings and all. I believe the
shadows are a metaphor for the demonic, and the whole thing is a judeo/christian/jungian morality play.

As to whether or not the Vorlons are ‘our friends’… I think the point is moot. The Vorlons obviously are in
tune with a higher truth, and it is to this truth that they ally themselves. They are friends to the degree that
humans share the same loyalties. It isn’t whether they have moved toward us, but whether or not we have
moved toward them– just like the angelic realm serving the divine. Unfortunately, this truth involves
perceptions and relationships that we can’t very well understand.

Humanity and the other races have simply wandered into harms way. We have thrust ourselves onto the
stage of ancient combat, and we are too out of touch with reality to recognize the nature of the battle.

As the old Korean proverb goes “when whales battle, shrimp are eaten.” When Vorlons and Shadows
battle, younger races are eaten.

I think it is also quite likely, that the Vorlons do not see themselves as enemies of the shadows, but that the
conflict between the shadows and the Vorlons is a catalyst for change for the younger races. The violent
interaction will either make or break us.

The Vorlons aren’t allies of the shadows, but the shadows (if my analogy holds) are more instinctive than
intelligent, more driven than in control. In the image of the demonic, they are given over to the destructive
and must one day destroy themselves in thier efforts to destroy or control others.

As to the problems with earth, I imagine that Talia and her bad buddies are a shadow fifth echelon within
earth’s structure. Talia is truly pulled into orbit around the shadows as a moth to a flame, and Ironhart (the
first human proto-vorlon) will be the one to break her free. The battle for Talia’s soul will become the
fulcrum upon which history pivots. The shadows are trying to hold her back from attaining the same
metamorphosis as Ironhart.

I also think that the shadows are attempting to break through time and space. I am not sure why, but there
seem to have been little hints along this line. If they were a race that was not particularly happy with the
way the natural laws turned out during the big bang they could be trying to collapse space and time in order
to ‘roll the dice again’ and re-invent the universe to their liking (ala Mach’s principle in quantum mechanics).
The geometry of their bodies seems to be very wrong somehow. If this was so, it would explain why they
are out on the rim. This would be a good place to be if the universe were going to collapse (sort of) —
actually the best place to be would be outside of the universe, but I don’t know how anyone would pull that
off (live in hyperspace??) Gee, they *do* live in hyperspace, don’t they?

Perhaps a universe full of life won’t collapse, and they must therefore kill and destroy in order to bring
about their plan.

 

 

IMHO.

Subj:: Re:Vorlons are Angels
Date: 2/12/96 6:02:26 AM
From: DaveShufon
Posted on: America Online

Actually we still haven’t seen what Vorlons look like. We’ve only seen what they make themselves appear
to be. And it takes a lot out of them to keep up this appearance, especially if there’s a large crowd watching
them. But what they look like when they’re not projecting images into our minds? We’ll have to wait and
see.

And I think you’re making an awfull lot of assumptions about the Vorlons and the Shadows. They may, or
may not be true. How do we know the Vorlons are our friends? We have no idea what their motives are.
For that matter, we also don’t know what the motives of the Shadows are, or why the Shadows and the First
Ones started fighting to begin with. How much of Delenn’s explanation of the previous wars was correct
and how much was propaganda? After all, it’s the victors who write the history books. There’s also no
proof that the Vorlons are “in tune with a higher truth”. The same thing goes for the Shadows being
demons.

Also, when people refer to the Rim they are not refering to the rim of the universe itself. Just the edge of
known space, which is the area of explored worlds within our own galaxy.

Dave

Subj:: Re:Kosh?
Date: 2/14/96 7:18:35 AM
From: DONDRAKE
Posted on: America Online

Kosh is really an angel, as we all have seen. But in the latest ephisode, Kosh to the rescue. Again he/she/it
appeared as an Angel.
I feel there is a direct connection to Earth Angels
Subj:: Vorlons, Shadows and TRUTH..
Date: 2/15/96 3:52:03 AM
From: Forrie2
Posted on: America Online

Interesting speculation about the motives of Vorlons and Shadows. We seem to know more about Vorlons
than we do the Shadows and very little about their history (ie: why they fought and what their particular
agendas are).

I think there’s an opportunity to go astray here with speculation. I think the writers (IMHO) are trying to
establish a presense with the Vorlons and Shadows. These are archetypes of our own belief systems, and
thus makes for a better story. ?

I suspect that the Vorlons probably have much more powerful technology and don’t “display” it… they seem
anal retentive in this regards, and probably for a good reason. But I think the point about whether Vorlons
are “angels” and Shadows are “demons” is all in the eyes of the beholder. It seems we can’t arrive at those
conclusions until we have more information about them and their past. ?

Taking some of the “hints” exhibited in the different episodes, I would tend to “speculate” :-) that the
Vorlons are “good” and quite possibly looking out for our best interests as far as they are concerned.
Nothing terribly harmful has come from their presense or intervention and it seems that they are concerned
for the well-being of the lower races–else why would they be there, other than for a strategic position.

The last episode I saw where G’Kar goes on a crystal rampage… it was interesting that Kosh happened to be
there. This hints at a higher awareness that Kosh may have to types of consciouness existing around him. It
seems that the vision that G’Kar had was a deliberate construciton of Kosh’s which clearly had a dramatic
effect on G’Kar’s view of the world around him. Here is another instance where the Vorlons are taking
initiative to influence beings around them. What do others make of this one?

I loved the special effects. I think that’s my favorite part of Babylon 5, is getting to see Kosh (in his chosen
form). But to the comment earlier: what if we saw the “real” Kosh.. well, according to the movie we’d all
go crazy! :-)

Forrie2
Subj:: Re:Friends or Foes?
Date: 2/15/96 3:57:25 AM
From: RMFlit
Posted on: America Online

I feel that the Vorlons are truly good, why else would they care about ‘beauty in the dark’? unless that means
beauty in evil. But I don’t think so.

Subj:: Re:Friends or Foes?
Date: 2/15/96 8:03:26 AM
From: JVibber
Posted on: America Online

Regarding the Vorlons’ intentions, I can’t help but wonder what the “Zog” at Sigma 957 meant by the
exclamation about Vorlons. Perhaps it was, “The Vorlons are nothing but a bunch of meddling #%@**s!!!”
Maybe the other First Ones disapprove of meddling in the affairs of the younger races, for reasons we may
find out as the series progresses.

Subj:: Re:Friends or Foes?
Date: 2/15/96 11:09:36 PM
From: DaveShufon
Posted on: America Online

<<I feel that the Vorlons are truly good, why else would they care about ‘beauty in the dark’? unless that
means beauty in evil. But I don’t think so.>>

I’m not so sure you’re right in that assumption. Nobody, and no race, is entirely good or entirely evil. And
JMS seems to like getting us to make assumptions about individuals and races, then turning those
assumptions upside down. Or at least showing us that it’s not so cut-and-dried. Like with the way my
impressions of the Narn and Centauri have changed since the show began. And the way I see G’Kar vs.
Londo.

So I’m trying not to make any assumptions regarding the Shadows and Vorlons yet, because we may yet be
surprised.

Dave

Subj:: Kosh the Shadow
Date: 2/20/96 7:32:44 PM
From: RukesRiese
Posted on: America Online

Gee, you’d think the Vorlons would kill Kosh, he being a rebel shadow. Or, am I thinking of something
else?

Subj:: Re:Kosh the Shadow
Date: 2/20/96 9:07:59 PM
From: RPillow
Posted on: America Online

Within all of us resides the gross being. It is the ultimate dichotomy of the Universe. The eternal struggle
between good and evil, light and dark, positive and negative, pure and gross. Everyone has it within him or
herself to choose which path they will take, to defeat the negative and follow the path toward the Light, or
to give into darkness and, well you know…….

RPillow

Subj:: Re:Kosh the Shadow
Date: 2/21/96 1:28:48 AM
From: Songokuten
Posted on: America Online

>>Within all of us resides the gross being. It is the ultimate dichotomy of the Universe. The eternal
struggle between good and evil, light and dark, positive and negative, pure and gross. Everyone has it
within him or herself to choose which path they will take, to defeat the negative and follow the path toward
the Light, or to give into darkness and, well you know…….<<

You must face Vader, Luke, or Kosh help you, the Shadows will get you!

Subj:: Re:The outcome of it all
Date: 2/21/96 6:23:28 PM
From: PredatorJi
Posted on: America Online

I think they are more like “guides” and that to them this is just another battle in the epoch-long Shadow
War.

Subj:: Re:good v evil
Date: 2/22/96 2:48:57 AM
From: RdNYC01
Posted on: America Online

“Pretty is as Pretty does” huh?? Perhaps all the ”younger” races are being manipulated by the old guard
“superpowers” like a intergalatic cold war with the Vorlons and “the shadows”{ with totally different points
of view far beyond our “puny human”comprehension}. Heh, the USA and the Soviets spent half a century
using other countries as defacto shooting practice grounds to boost both powers on world view(“THE EVIL
EMPIRE”remember) …But remember this is TVSCIFI…and until The writers come up with a “name ”
instead a emotionally charged term like “the Shadows’ I really doubt that this not one more Tolkien styled
fantasy with Classic Euro/Western god=good evil=devil simplicity with a Few Eddings/Donaldson twists.

charcoal

Subj:: Re:Good or Bad?
Date: 2/22/96 3:05:50 AM
From: RdNYC01
Posted on: America Online

same kosh same mosh… maybe a collective mind maybe blu m&ms in their encounter suits…
ITS fANTASY OK AND ALL THE FUN IS GETTING THERE (wherever that maybe) well some of the
fun is trying figure it out but as of now NODATA maybe The Shadows are fallen Vorlons maybe their the
souls of all those ants Antman used in early marvels trying to get back at them…
charcoal

Subj:: Re:Kosh?
Date: 2/23/96 8:37:46 AM
From: Ikon worlD
Posted on: America Online

I think the vorlond are not corporial bings This means they are not self existant. According to the Buddhist
explination of enlightenment, it is a state of continuity beyond existance, non- existance , both , or neither.

thus all multiple vorlons are all the same being
They HAVE ALLWAYS BEEN HERE

 
Subj:: Vorlons and Interference
Date: 2/24/96 3:10:21 AM
From: PKellyJr
Posted on: America Online

Thoughts on Vorlons and Interference with younger races (if they do it)

It occures to me that Bro Theo’s band of monks could play a big role in the
unvailing of the Vorlons with regard to the manipulation on the various
species. (An idea that I have seen in some e-mail on Babylon 5)

Remember he (Bro Theo) and his band are there spacifically to find out the
truth about the “redemption” stories of the many races.

I wonder what the good brother makes of the stories of the visions in the garden. That
dramatic event, occuring just befor his arrival, must be known to him by now. I would think that he would
sooner or later be questioning the good Captian about it.

I wonder is Kosh is aware of Bro Theo and his mission?

Subj:: Vorlons nd the First Ones
Date: 2/24/96 6:34:35 PM
From: RomeoX642
Posted on: America Online

I was reading the message board and I had a thought. The First Ones in “Voices of Authority” were
obviously ticked at the mention of the Vorlons. What if , to draw a paralell, they were like Americans to
Russians? Let me explain. Going back to the cold war era, if you picture the Vorlons as the Russians and
the First Ones as the Americans, you would know that they were once allies against the Shadows
(Germany?), but grew bitter tword each other after the war, perhaps due to differences in philosophy
(Communism vs. Capitalism). If so, Ivonova saying they might turn to the Vorlons for help would be like
Great Brittan (Earth,Membar,ect…), at war with Germany (Shadows), asking an American general for
assistance and when he refused, saying you would go to the Russians for aid. Obviously the American
would be ticked, much like the First Ones were. Just a theory.
RomeoX642

Subj:: Kosh and Methane
Date: 2/25/96 1:48:41 AM
From: Ynacio
Posted on: America Online

Maybe someone here can enlighten me on this one . . .
(this has been bugging me for a while now)

Remember when Kosh left his encounter suit to save Sheridan? He can obviously exist without the special
atmosphere (methane, I think) in his quarters. So why that atmosphere? Any thoughts?

Subj:: Better than Trek!
Date: 2/25/96 4:19:56 AM
From: Mnwitplan
Posted on: America Online

I’d just like to say I really like Babylon 5. It’s more believeable than Star Trek! Keep up the good work!

Subj:: Re:Kosh?
Date: 2/25/96 6:11:07 AM
From: MacManJWS
Posted on: America Online

My opinion of the Shadows is that they are fallen Vorlons. Consider the Biblical passage which says (I’m
not quoting now, OK?) “…And there was war in Heaven, and Michael led the Angels, and the fallen ones
fell down from Heaven…”

Something like that. So when Kosh revealed himself in TFON, Minbari saw Valen(?), Narn saw G’Lar,
Drazi saw Droshalla (poor blessed people on B5…being poked every which way but…), and any human who
might have seen the Holy Being saw…Michael perhaps?

Macker

Subj:: Re:Kosh and Methane
Date: 2/25/96 11:42:05 PM
From: WifeAgain
Posted on: America Online

my 2 cents: Maybe its to keep everybody else out!

Subj:: Re:Better than Trek!
Date: 2/26/96 12:12:49 AM
From: MythoPhile
Posted on: America Online

<< It’s more believeable than Star Trek! >>
What’s unbelievable about Kira having a Cardassian double who was surgically altered to look like her
Bajoran double who also happened to be a member of the resistance? Hey, it could happen.

Subj:: Re: Vorlons and Interference
Date: 2/26/96 3:36:13 AM
From: Nermeister
Posted on: America Online

It’s like what the Vindrizi said in Exogenesis. The Minbari, Humans, Narn, Centauri, etc. are all being
manipulated by either the Shadows or the Vorlons as part of their conflict. Their purpose comes from the
outside, not from within. Why involve them at all? Does it have anything to do with the recurring theme of
needing another life to live forever?

I would almost believe everything Kosh said if he wouldn’t do things like convince G’kar that he needed to
sacrifice all the Narn to save them. It would be nice if G’kar would help Sheridan and the others, but
sacrifice all the Narn? I suppose Kosh could be right about everyone being connected and they all rise or
fall together. I just don’t understand why the Vorlons won’t do more themselves instead of expecting
everyone else to kill and die for them. If history teaches anything, the Shadows and Vorlons will just come
back in another 1000-10000 years and do it again. IT”S NOT FAIR!!!

(well, someone had to say it)

Subj:: Re:Friends or Foes?
Date: 2/27/96 12:31:20 AM
From: CompuSqual
Posted on: America Online

THE VORLONS ARE OMNISCENT ! THEY KNOW ALL AND ARE OUR FRIENDS…

Subj:: Re:Friends or Foes?
Date: 2/27/96 12:40:57 AM
From: ABurroughs
Posted on: America Online

CompuSqual,

There has been, up to this point, absolutely no proof of anything you just stated. On the flip-side, there has
been nothing to disprove what you stated either.

Even still, I don’t believe that the Vorlons are omniscent -telpathic yes, omniscent…no. And as for being our
friends, I will only comment and say…we are at peace with one another. We’ll see whether or not if they are
really our friends.

Alanda.

Subj:: Re:Kosh?
Date: 2/27/96 2:39:53 AM
From: Ynacio
Posted on: America Online

<<From: MacManJWS
My opinion of the Shadows is that they are fallen Vorlons. Consider the Biblical passage which says (I’m
not quoting now, OK?) “…And there was war in Heaven, and Michael led the Angels, and the fallen ones
fell down from Heaven…”>>

jms has stated in several episodes that the Shadows are older than even the Old Ones. Maybe the Vorlons
are fallen Shadows . . .
Subj:: Re:Vorlons are Angels
Date: 3/1/96 3:56:34 PM
From: QUIGLEYPUB
Posted on: America Online

Judeo-Christian morality play….I kinda doubt it with Ellison on board…..

Subj:: Re:Vorlons are Angels
Date: 3/1/96 10:17:31 PM
From: DONNIE1909
Posted on: America Online

I think the vorlons are us(in series) in the future.

Subj:: Re:Kosh and Methane
Date: 3/2/96 7:32:12 AM
From: JVibber
Posted on: America Online

<< Remember when Kosh left his encounter suit to save Sheridan? He can obviously exist without the
special atmosphere (methane, I think) in his quarters. So why that atmosphere? Any thoughts? >>

Well, I generally hold my breath when I dive into a swimming pool. Swimming doesn’t mean that I breathe
water. So I guess Kosh could have done the same thing. In fact, it was interesting that when Sheridan
asked the “angelic” figure whether he/it was Kosh, all Kosh did was nod, not speak.

Subj:: Re:How did it start?
Date: 3/2/96 5:51:10 PM
From: BKing85023
Posted on: America Online

ARE THE HUMANS ON EARTH THE ORIGINAL HUMANS OR DID WE ORIGINATE
SOMEWHERE ELSE AND GET DROPED OFF HERE FOR COLONIZING?

Subj:: Re:How did it start?
Date: 3/5/96 7:43:12 AM
From: JVibber
Posted on: America Online

<< ARE THE HUMANS ON EARTH THE ORIGINAL HUMANS OR DID WE ORIGINATE
SOMEWHERE ELSE AND GET DROPED OFF HERE FOR COLONIZING? >>

We are the evolved descendants of Spoo.

For reference, check Larry Niven’s “World of Ptaavs”

Subj:: Re:Technology Observations
Date: 3/5/96 3:15:16 PM
From: Blaze754
Posted on: America Online

pascal86,

If this was true why do the shadows also use hyperspace. Perhaps it is still the best, or eisiest way to
travel.

Subj:: Re:Vorlons
Date: 3/5/96 11:08:51 PM
From: RFclayton
Posted on: America Online

Fool me once, shame on you. Fool mw twice, shame on me. Why fight the same war not once, not twice
yet thrice. Maybe the Old Ones (Zog) did not agree with the war plans that the Vorlons had in the second
war. How did the second war end? Maybe some of the allies thought to end the war; there should be total
genocide of the losers so it doesn’t repeat. Maybe the allies had different reasons to fight the war. If the
Shadows had destroyed many races and civilizations then why let them live to do that to their unknown
decendents who might not have the ability to win the war in the future. By the way I personally do not
regard this as suitable reason for genocide, there is no justiication for genocide. But we are dealing with a
plotline not real life.

Subj:: Re:Vorlons
Date: 3/6/96 6:53:14 AM
From: RZorich
Posted on: America Online

<<. If the Shadows had destroyed many races and civilizations then why let them live to do that to their
unknown decendents who might not have the ability to win the war in the future>>
The battle is lived through over and over because the battle is all the ancients have left. Neither the shadows
nor the other ancient ones seem to exist in our Universe entirely, so the only way they (the Shadows)
actually can gain power is through stirring up hatred and fear – thus leaving some sentients around here and
there gives them the opportunity to rise up again in the future. The other ancient races are the foil – the Yin
to the Shadow’s Yang. The more power the Shadows become, the easier and safer it is for the ancients to
come out of their own shadows.

RZ
Subj:: Vorlons/Shadows..same?
Date: 3/8/96 2:07:46 AM
From: EDan0107
Posted on: America Online

Hypothesis: Vorlons and Shadows evolved from the same race of ancients, it is only their methods that
separate them.

Support:
1-both use similar technology in space craft…live spacecraft!
2-both appear as shimmering beings of light….Kosh in the Zen Garden and the Shadows that “visit” Susan
during her trip to Sigma 957 (those beings in space were vaguely familiar in appearance)
3-Are those insect-like beings on Za’Hadum merely Shadows in their own kind of encounter suit?It doesn’t
appear to be alive, but it does appear to be inhabited.
4-Both manipulate the younger races, Vorlons thru intervention, visions, guidance, and growth, the
Shadows thru war and conflict and discord.
5-Neither have a desire to be seen for what they really are, except as a last resort.
6-Both use a type of whistle/tweep/pitch sound in communications

I suspect both try to accelerate the growth and evolution of stronger young races. Its only their choice of
the type of “natural” selection that makes them different. However, both the Shadows and the Vorlons think
theirs is the correct way. Is this the ancient battle of good and evil….of the angels in heaven and the fallen
angels?

Subj:: B5-Lord of the Rings
Date: 3/8/96 10:10:22 AM
From: CMNaske
Posted on: America Online

Howdy All!
Has it struck anybody that B5 shares a tremendous amount of similarities with The Lord of the Rings?
The Vorlons are the Elves.
The Shadows are Mordor.
The Rangers are the Rangers.
Please feel free to discuss this angle further, we might just gather some insight into the coming Shadow
War/War of the Ring…The Elder Race Ivanova and Cole contacted could be..Hroom, Hmm..The Ents?
Thank you for your time and indulgence.

Subj:: Ships
Date: 3/15/96 9:06:48 PM
From: Rep Newt
Posted on: America Online

I’d just like to say I think the Vorlon Fighters, Warships, and even the little transport Kosh has, are all pretty
darn cool!!! I’d like to know why we see so much of the “mysterious” Shadows and so little of the Vorlons.
I mean, sure, the Vorlons are mysterious but they haven’t been hiding for the last thousand years like the
Shadows. I want to see those petals on the Vorlon ships flapping and I want to see some tendrils shooting!
Subj:: Lyta
Date: 3/16/96 6:39:07 AM
From: PsiLytaA
Posted on: America Online

Obviously, Kosh has seemed to focus alot of his attention on the lovely Ms. Alexander. He never had need
of an attache before, even when the other ambassadors had theirs present. Plus, she was alowed on the
Vorlon homeworld when no other outsider was. Wether or not Lyta is just a puppet in this war, or a more
mobile way for Kosh to move around, it seems obvious to me that she will end up playing as major a role in
the Shadow War as will Sheriden, Delenn, and Kosh himself. (Talia Who?)

R.J.

Subj:: Beauty in the Dark
Date: 3/16/96 6:46:31 PM
From: RomeoX642
Posted on: America Online

I know this goes a long ways back, but I believe that there are many Vorlons on the station. In the episode
in which Kosh teaches Sheridan about “Beauty in the Dark”, Sheridan is suddenly surrounded by music and
light. We know the Vorlons give off light after the episode,”Fall of Night”, and it is a well known fact that
the Vorlons encounter suits translate music into words. Besides, what other explaination is there, aside from
Kosh manipulating the sheet-men and music all by himself?

Subj:: Re:Kosh and Methane
Date: 3/18/96 6:09:04 PM
From: Archer C1
Posted on: America Online

<He can obviously exist without the special atmosphere (methane, I think) in his quarters. So why that
atmosphere? Any thoughts?>

To keep casual visitors out perhaps?

Subj:: Re:Friends or Foes?
Date: 3/21/96 11:55:41 PM
From: Okami123
Posted on: America Online

I gotta say that the Vorlons honestly wouldn’t care about us if it werent for the Shadows.Hell,that is the only
reason Kosh,who is the last of his kind on this side of the veil,is even here.Otherwise, Eart or whoever
would have discovered an abandoned planet or something.

Subj:: A neat point
Date: 3/22/96 4:15:33 AM
From: Phill Chip
Posted on: America Online

One of the things that I really like about B5 is entertaining the thought that

more advanced races would be around and be part of human life. I would

like to see more of that even if it is just to show we are human.

Subj:: Vorlon attack
Date: 3/23/96 5:04:11 AM
From: Its a myth
Posted on: America Online

Please forgive this question if it is redundant. I don’t usually follow this folder, but this week’s episode
contained a statement that took me by surprise.
I have only been watching B5 regularly for about a year, so I may have missed this early on, but when did
the Vorlons attack B5? What was the situation? Thanks for any info.

Subj:: Re:Vorlon attack
Date: 3/23/96 5:46:24 PM
From: RomeoX642
Posted on: America Online

The Vorlon’s didn’t attack B5 itself. They attacked a freighter in Babylon 5 space. In the first season, in an
episode called “Deathwalker”, a former Overlord named Deathwalker had created a process that would
grant the user eternal life. When transorting off Babylon 5 to distribute the serum to Earth, and eventually
the galaxy, a Vorlon ship entered the jumpgate and destroyed the ship. Kosh then entered and said, “You
are not ready for immortality.” Then he left the room. Hope that clears it up.

Subj:: Re:Answers
Date: 3/23/96 5:57:47 PM
From: RomeoX642
Posted on: America Online

I have done extensive research into the matter, and I now know everything there is to know about Babylon 5
that has been revealed through the show as of now, and even some that hasn’t. Everything I know has been
confirmed personally by JMS and the other producers personally. If you have any quesions about the show,
E-Mail me at RomeoX642@aol.com or leave a message on the board. This is not a joke.

Subj:: Re:Vorlon attack
Date: 3/23/96 10:33:11 PM
From: Songokuten
Posted on: America Online

>>
The Vorlon’s didn’t attack B5 itself. They attacked a freighter in Babylon 5 space. In the first season, in an
episode called “Deathwalker”, a former Overlord named Deathwalker had created a process that would
grant the user eternal life. When transorting off Babylon 5 to distribute the serum to Earth, and eventually
the galaxy, a Vorlon ship entered the jumpgate and destroyed the ship. Kosh then entered and said, “You
are not ready for immortality.” Then he left the room. Hope that clears it up.<<

But in the pilot episode, The Gathering, the Vorlons pointed their weapons at B5, warmed them up, and
demanded justice for the attack on Kosh.

Subj:: Re: B5-Lord of the Rings
Date: 3/30/96 10:17:46 PM
From: GTolwyn
Posted on: America Online

I have seen similar parallels between the show and the trilogy. Here’s another parallel I think could prove
most interesting:

TRILUMINARY is comparible to the RING OF POWER, which in Middle-Earth was also called THE
ONE.

possible connection here? I don’t know, but I like the idea of it though!

Subj:: Re: B5-Lord of the Rings
Date: 4/1/96 4:25:25 AM
From: JVibber
Posted on: America Online

<< TRILUMINARY is comparible to the RING OF POWER, which in Middle-Earth was also called THE
ONE. >>

Interesting. But JMS has stated that “The One” is most definitely Sinclair. Then he goads us with the
question, “Ah, but the one WHAT?”

Somehow, although the Triluminaries may be important, I don’t think they connect to the One Ring in the
way you have in mind.
Subj:: Re:Vorlon attack
Date: 4/21/96 6:28:12 PM
From: Terrell J
Posted on: America Online

They also threatened the station with destruction in the series pilot, “The Gathering.” When it was apparent
that the Earth Alliance Commander had attempted to assasinate the Vorlon ambassador, they sent an armada
to B5 to take him into custody or else destroy the station.

Subj:: Re:Kosh?
Date: 4/22/96 1:50:07 AM
From: RPillow
Posted on: America Online

Ynacio,

You wrote,

<<Maybe the Vorlons are fallen Shadows. . .>>

I think it’s more plausible to conclude that the Vorlons are “reformed” Shadows, or something to that effect

RPillow

Subj:: Re:Vorlons are Angels
Date: 4/22/96 1:50:52 AM
From: RPillow
Posted on: America Online

DONNIE1909,

EXCELLENT conclusion, my friend!

RPillow

Subj:: Re:How did it start?
Date: 4/22/96 1:53:00 AM
From: RPillow
Posted on: America Online

BKing,

*All* humans originated somewhere else and were “dropped off” on Earth for a very special reason. In
truth, however, we are not actually “here” ourselves. What exists here in these physical bodies is only a
portion of our souls and consciousness, which do their work through these physical, 3 dimensional bodies.

RPillow

Subj:: Re:Friends or Foes?
Date: 4/22/96 1:57:30 AM
From: RPillow
Posted on: America Online

Okami123,

Kosh is not the last of his kind still on this side of the veil, he is just the only Vorlon on B5. The Vorlon
homeworld, which is located in the Milky Way galaxy (sort of), has a *LOT* more Vorlons on it.

RPillow

Subj:: Re:Answers
Date: 4/22/96 2:01:11 AM
From: RPillow
Posted on: America Online

RomeoX642,

I have done my own extensive research into B5 and know *everything* there is to know about the show. Of
course, I told you this before. My sources are the same as yours (or so you claim), but I am interested in
knowing why you didn’t respond to my last E-mail message when I told you that I already knew the outcome
of the Shadow War before you did. Let’s keep this little exchange of information going. I’ll be in touch
with you via E-mail very soon.

RPillow

Subj:: I apologize…
Date: 4/24/96 2:01:20 AM
From: Yogzilla
Posted on: America Online

…I’m new here, so I’m a bit out of date. Anyway…

I have theorized that Lyta is (as has been posted before) Kosh’s “less conspicuous” encounter suit. After all,
what better way for an “angel” to mingle with the “common folk” than by assuming a “mortal guise”.

Ok, that may be a bit too much, but I think the energy strands and gills on Lyta was more than a mind-link
(for lack of a better word).

Either way, I’m still just glad that Kosh had the forethought to “backup” Talia on crystal. 😉

Now, if only I could get over this nagging feeling that Kosh’s motives are as pure as I originally thought.

-JB

Subj:: Question
Date: 4/24/96 6:12:25 AM
From: ELIOTJOHNS
Posted on: America Online

Has anyone else noticed that the first time Kosh appeared infront of everyone he looked like a Membari?
And when he appeared the second time to G’Kar he was a Narn.
Thoughts?

Subj:: Re:Question
Date: 4/24/96 9:09:57 PM
From: RPillow
Posted on: America Online

ELIOTJOHNS,

Yes, I think we all noticed. Kosh appears differently to every race that sees him. If a Minbari sees him, he
appears as a Minbari, hence his initial appearance which was seen from Delenn’s point of view. When
G’Kar saw him, he appeared as a Narn. When Sheridan saw him, he appeared as a Human angel. It’s the
way that they have “programmed” the younger races to perceive them.

RPillow

Subj:: Re:Question
Date: 4/25/96 6:56:16 AM
From: ELIOTJOHNS
Posted on: America Online

Thanks RPillow I thought thats what it was, but I wasn’t sure. Its good to know that people actually read
this stuff
Thanks
ELIOTJOHNS

Subj:: Re:Question
Date: 4/25/96 8:43:25 PM
From: RPillow
Posted on: America Online

ELIOTJOHNS,

Don’t mention it. That’s what I’m here for.

RPillow

Subj:: Interludes etc…
Date: 4/29/96 12:14:07 AM
From: HubertL905
Posted on: America Online

Looks like Kosh will be up to some kind of shenanegans in the upcoming episode “Interludes and
Examinations.” And it doesn’t look like a mild exchange of pleasantries….

Subj:: Re:Interludes etc…
Date: 4/29/96 1:17:42 AM
From: Miles1005
Posted on: America Online

<<Looks like Kosh will be up to some kind of shenanegans in the upcoming episode “Interludes and
Examinations.” And it doesn’t look like a mild exchange of pleasantries….>>

That’s putting it mildly!

Jim

Subj:: Re:Interludes etc…
Date: 4/29/96 8:32:49 PM
From: Rep Newt
Posted on: America Online

Not only Kosh, in one of the battles, there is a Vorlon War Cruiser involved.

Subj:: Re:Interludes etc…
Date: 4/30/96 1:03:53 AM
From: HubertL905
Posted on: America Online

Let’s be careful of spoilers here…..

Subj:: SPOILER
Date: 5/8/96 3:36:19 AM
From: TheLip77
Posted on: America Online

The following questions are spoilers regarding the next episode with Kosh.
.
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.
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.
..
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.
.
How many shadow creatures did it take to overcome and “kill” Kosh. It appeared there were at least 3
shadow creatures with Morden earlier in the show. Why was there no DNA found in the remains of his
encounter suit??

Subj:: Re:SPOILER
Date: 5/8/96 3:55:10 AM
From: Bippi Boy
Posted on: America Online

SPOILER
*
*
*
*
*
*
*
*
*
*
*
*
*
*
*
*
*
Remember, there was a time that Kosh inhabited the body of Lyta Alexander. Maybe Vorlons are beings of
pure energy or thought. Maybe Kosh has gone Obi Wan on us!

Subj:: real spoiler
Date: 5/8/96 10:46:35 AM
From: CurlyJ
Posted on: America Online

With the astonishing change in this episode where does that put the Vorlons now? Will they
step up their involvement or back down? Unless the Vorlons step in, this changes the alliance radically.

Jan

Subj:: Vorlon-Shadow connection
Date: 5/9/96 1:41:21 AM
From: Bippi Boy
Posted on: America Online

SPOILER AGAIN

*
*
*
*
*
*
*
*
*
*
*
*
*
*
Just a question-

Ivanova (I think it was her) said there was a bond between Kosh and his ship at the “funeral”. This may
mean that the Vorlons are somehow connected to their ship. Don’t the Shadows also use hosts? I realize that
they may just be using similar technology, but what if the Shadows were Vorlon gone bad?
Not even a theory, just a thought.

Subj:: Re:Interludes
Date: 5/9/96 6:18:50 AM
From: PsiLytaA
Posted on: America Online

Oh my dear lord. Who would’ve ever thought?!!!? Incidently, is anyone else dismayed that Pat Tallman
wasn’t in the episode at all? She was the closest to Kosh….or maybe…it was Lyta who died? Or at the very
least perhaps there is a part of Kosh inside of her
R.I.P. Kosh.

Subj:: Re:good v evil
Date: 5/9/96 3:19:23 PM
From: WTawler
Posted on: America Online

Remember that in the Bible, Lucifer was God’s favorite angel. Sometimes the line between good and evil is
fuzzy. The Vorlons may indeed be a “good” race, i.e., in comparison to the Shadows. Still, they show
themselves to be superior in many ways to the lesser races on Babylon 5. This pompous attitude takes away
from their “good” aspects.

Subj:: Red Vorlon
Date: 5/10/96 2:33:18 AM
From: Rep Newt
Posted on: America Online

Did anyone notice one of the Vorlon warships was a reddish brown while all the rest were greenish? It
seemed like special attention was paid to the ship because it had two close-ups in what seemed like such a
short battle sequence.

Subj:: Re:Vorlon-Shadow connection
Date: 5/10/96 4:36:05 AM
From: Khundawit
Posted on: America Online

Since you used a spoiler screen for this thought, I thought I might return the coutesy-
x
x
x
x
x
x
x
x
x
x
x
x
x
x
x
I don’t think that just because the Shadows and Vorlons use living organisms as ships means much, or that
they are related in some way. After all, maybe the Walkers or any of the other Old Ones may use another
form of advanced technology that the Younger Races don’t possess. They are both utilizing a type of
technology, and they may be using it in two completely different ways. (Just like RJR/Reynalds uses
tobacco one way, and a Plant cell Biologist uses tobacco (the lab rat of botanical research) in another.) One
may use the technology for purposes of good, and the other may not.

Subj:: Re:good v evil
Date: 5/10/96 4:38:21 AM
From: Khundawit
Posted on: America Online

Who cares.
We don’t explain our morality to a dog or a cat when we go to neuter it.

Even if we did, Bowser or Fluffy wouldn’t understand it

Subj:: Re:Red Vorlon
Date: 5/10/96 4:39:33 AM
From: Khundawit
Posted on: America Online

Maybe it is significant. Maybe it is just Mendelian genetics.

Subj:: Re:Vorlon-Shadow connection
Date: 5/10/96 10:06:26 PM
From: WTawler
Posted on: America Online

My guess is that the Vorlons will play an extremely important role in the War.

N.B.: When an “angel” appears, the form is perceived in terms that the viewer can understand it; therefore,
when Kosh appears to different species, “he” (“it?”) is perceived in a format that humans, or Narns, or
whoever, can understand him.

Anybody agree? Or disagree?

Subj:: Re:Vorlon-Shadow connection
Date: 5/11/96 4:52:25 PM
From: BretFein
Posted on: America Online

Backtracking to the previous ep – Telepaths can be used as eapons against Shadow ships. In 1st season, we
learned that the Vorlons are ‘leery of telepaths’. I wonder – is that just because the Shadows like to have
telepaths in charge of their ships? Or is telepathy a potential weapon against the Vorlons as well? Both us
organic ships; presumably, the Vorlon ships might require someone to be ‘merged’ with them as well. Just
how different are these two groups, really?

That’s just another perk in this show – you can never be sure that the ‘bad’ guys are really the ‘bad’ guys…
or how different the ‘good’ guys are from the ‘bad’ guys.

Subj:: Death of Kosh
Date: 5/11/96 7:13:00 PM
From: SKelseymil
Posted on: America Online

I feel very sorry about his death. I think he should not have died. The show won’t be the same with out him.

Subj:: Funeral for Kosh
Date: 5/11/96 11:51:56 PM
From: Yado M
Posted on: America Online

Does anyone know how I can schedule a Memorial service for Kosh in the Eclipse Cafe? I think we should
do something here to put some closure to his passing.

Subj:: Re:Vorlon attack
Date: 5/12/96 7:02:57 PM
From: Joedrose
Posted on: America Online

vorlons are definitly the power in that galaxy.also,b5 v.s star wars. b5 would win
what do you think.
Subj:: The Red Vorlon
Date: 5/13/96 1:35:29 AM
From: Grimlock1
Posted on: America Online

Anybody but me notice anything strange about that Vorlon battle group that opened up a six-pack of butt-
kick and massaged the Shadows faces with some REALLY heavy weapons?

 
How ’bout that red ship? I don’t remember him doing anything major. That kinda hampers my theory about
a Vorlon Red Barron. Any thoughts?

Subj:: Are Vorlons old ones?
Date: 5/14/96 12:18:41 AM
From: GROPOS 40K
Posted on: America Online

Could someone please settle this debate? Is Kosh a Vorlon? Are the Vorlons a) Old Ones b) First Ones c)
all of the above. Thank you.

Subj:: Re:Are Vorlons old ones?
Date: 5/14/96 12:26:49 AM
From: CCanterbur
Posted on: America Online

In one episode Dilenn seid Kosh couldnot leave his incountersute or everyone would recignise him,and that
after the great war all but one of the first ones had passed beond the stars.

Subj:: Re:Are Vorlons old ones?
Date: 5/14/96 3:01:49 AM
From: DaveShufon
Posted on: America Online

<<Could someone please settle this debate? Is Kosh a Vorlon? Are the Vorlons a) Old Ones b) First Ones
c) all of the above. Thank you.>>

Kosh is a Vorlon. The Vorlons are just one of the races that make up the First Ones. The Old Ones is just
another name for the First Ones. The Vorlons are the only race of First Ones that still has any involvement
with the other races. The Shadows were old when the First Ones were young.

Subj:: The Engagement
Date: 5/15/96 11:50:44 PM
From: Enfuego007
Posted on: America Online

Was it me, or did the relatively small Vorlon attack fleet kock the Shadows butts? I know the shadows were
caught off guard, but the Vorlons completely decimated the fleet in a relatively short amount of time.
Perhaps the Vorlons are more powerful than the shadows but the shadows have “numerical superiority”.
Thats why the Vorlons did not want to attack the shadows. The Vorlons wanted(perhaps) a fleet of the
combined races aiding them. Perhaps the Vorlons “time” was at Za’Ha’Dum. Just a thought.

Subj:: Re:The Engagement
Date: 5/16/96 1:20:11 AM
From: Rep Newt
Posted on: America Online

The attack was a surprise from behind. Yes, the Vorlons ripped it up with the Shadows, but would the
Vorlon fleet have faired any better if they were attacked from behind? I think they would have been
mopped up. The Vorlon War Cruiser would be one big target until it could get its four, tendril, laser, shield
things around and pointed at the Shadows. The smaller Vorlon destroyer would probably get toasted before
it could turn around and fire. The extremely fast and manuverable fighters would probably be the only ones
to survive.

Subj:: Re:The Red Vorlon
Date: 5/17/96 12:15:14 AM
From: Yado M
Posted on: America Online

He might have been their ( I think he was) and just didn’t get much screen time. All the Vorlons were kickin
butt, so he might have been bumped off.
Subj:: Re:The Red Vorlon
Date: 5/19/96 1:32:18 AM
From: CDRKyleASG
Posted on: America Online

How come when ever the vorlons speak many voices said at once?Alos do vorlons have a physical
body?Besides their enviromental suit

Subj:: Re:The Vorlons’ “Babble”
Date: 5/19/96 1:51:10 AM
From: WTawler
Posted on: America Online

Kosh appeared as an angel, and as such, it is not at all surprising that his speech was perceived by each race
in their own tongues, and also, he was seen as a deity particular to every different species on Babylon 5.
There is a funny play on words here – Tower of Babel, the Babylon of ancient times, etc.

Perhaps during the next season we will come to realize just how powerful the Vorlons really are, and I don’t
believe the Shadows have any real chance of beating them.
Subj:: New Vorlon
Date: 5/19/96 6:22:49 PM
From: Grimlock1
Posted on: America Online

I was looking at that other Vorlon’s suit and I was thinking.

the subtle traits of the suit seemed to say one two things, younger or female.
Possebly both.

Subj:: What I reckon
Date: 5/20/96 10:17:46 AM
From: Chavyre
Posted on: America Online

I was gonna read every message but couldn’t be arsed and am meant to be revising, but here’s what I think
about the whole thing…be I right or wrong.
Vorlons aren’t good or bad..they simply are and they do what the hell they like, but they don’t like shadows.
I’ve heard that Kosh is a Vorlon outcast…anyone else heard this? I’ve also heard that someone is meant to be
paying a visit to the Vorlon homeworld…either Sinclair (who is meant to be coming back) or Dellen (bollix!
How do you spell that?) Lyta’s gills were so she could breathe in Kosh’s environment, the light that was
coming out of her was Kosh ‘sucking’ the information she’d been sent to get for him…rememeber, she had
just been on an ‘errand’ for him.
The Vorlons aren’t the only first ones left! Ivonova and Cole found those dodgy floating mask things in
”Voices of Authority’ who clearly didn’t like the Vorlons. Errm…Vorlon ships are sort of errm well
biotechnological things that are sort of alive…sort of like the Phalanx in the recent X-men comics. )f course
if you don’t read the X-men you don’t know what I’m on about, but trust me on this.
Other rumours I’ve heard is that Sheridans wife’s coming back and that just about everyone on B5 is going
to die! This includes Londo, G’kar (hey…I’m supprised) Sheridan…ect, ect, ect.
The appearenca of Vorlons outside thier encounter suits varies becuase each spieces depicts. them
differently…angels or whatever…just as G’kar did in last nighs episode ‘Dust to Dust’
Does anyone know when the new Star Fury class ships are going to make an appearence? They look pretty
cool.
Chavyre.

Subj:: Re:What I reckon
Date: 5/20/96 3:22:05 PM
From: Grimlock1
Posted on: America Online

The phalanex were techno-organic life.
That means that they are machinery(nanites) that behave like a living creature
Vorlon Organic Technology is organic life that behaves like a machine

BTW what is the deal with that red Vorlon ship from a while back?

Subj:: Re:Vorlons and Kosh
Date: 5/21/96 12:05:28 AM
From: Blueshero
Posted on: America Online

What about the possiblity of the Vorlons and Kosh being the first generation of the same species as the
shadows? Kosh is the “last” of the Old Ones. Which were replaced evolutionaraly by the Shadows.

Subj:: Re:What I reckon
Date: 5/21/96 2:02:21 AM
From: DaveShufon
Posted on: America Online

<<BTW what is the deal with that red Vorlon ship from a while back?>>

JMS has said before that it’s just a different colored ship. Since they are life forms themselves, they would
come in different shapes, sizes and colors.

Subj:: Re:Vorlons and Kosh
Date: 5/21/96 2:03:39 AM
From: DaveShufon
Posted on: America Online

<<What about the possiblity of the Vorlons and Kosh being the first generation of the same species as the
shadows? Kosh is the “last” of the Old Ones. Which were replaced evolutionaraly by the Shadows.>>

But the Shadows are much older than the Vorlons. And JMS has said before that the Vorlons and Shadows
are *not* just different groups of the same species.

Subj:: Re:My own opinion
Date: 5/21/96 8:22:28 AM
From: LoudonB
Posted on: America Online

It is clearly suggested that the Vorlons have been manipulating the lesser races in preparation for this
coming war. Therefore, the concept of good instilled in all the races is simply the Vorlons’ concept of good.
If you turn the tables and it was the Shadows that have done all the manipulating, then they would be the
“good guy”. It is all a matter of perspective and relativity.

LoudonB

Subj:: Re:Better than Trek!
Date: 5/21/96 8:23:14 AM
From: LoudonB
Posted on: America Online

But of course. B5 is better that anything.

LoudonB

Subj:: Re:Are Vorlons old ones?
Date: 5/21/96 4:08:11 PM
From: RPillow
Posted on: America Online

GROPOS 40K,

Kosh *is* a Vorlon and the Vorlons are one of the races known as the First Ones.

RPillow

Subj:: Vorlons and old ones
Date: 5/22/96 3:07:30 AM
From: GeronimoDG
Posted on: America Online

Just because these two races are older doesn’t mean they’re perfect. I think the Walkers on Sigma 957 and
the Vorlons had a war at one point in the not too distant past, which could explain why the Vorlons don’t
have many ships and the Walkers don’t like to hear about Vorlons.

Subj:: Re:Vorlons and old ones
Date: 5/22/96 6:50:25 AM
From: DaveAtCWRU
Posted on: America Online

My guess the interaction between the Walkers and the Vorlons is it is a simple jealousy/rivalry thing. I find
it interesting that JMS chooses to endow the first ones with many human traits(i.e. fear, jealousy, pride, self-
righteousness.) This allows the humans in the story to interact with the first ones in meaningful ways and
even influence decisions.

For example, Ivonova played off the Walkers’ rivalry with the Vorlons and actually made them change their
minds. A logical omniscient (sp?) being would not be affected by the simple manipulation of a mere
human. Same thing with Sheridan and Kosh reguarding getting involved in the war. Sheriden’s badgering
actually changed the mind of a first one.

This revelation is very surprising to me, but it makes the story interesting, since it shows that there are no
races even close to perfect in the B5 universe.
Subj:: kosh and his ship
Date: 5/23/96 5:14:17 PM
From: Daniel75
Posted on: America Online

Did anyone else notice how Kosh’s ship was identicle to those Vorlon destroyers (green and red), but his
has always been described as a transport. Also, why didn’t Kosh just go to his ship if he knew the Shadows
were going to attack him? I mean his ships tentacle-gun thingys could’ve really evened the odds against the
3 shadows and Morden. (or better yet, why not have “Jack” take Morden? I mean Kosh, 2 other Vorlons
and Jack would wipe the floor with 3 shadows and Morden, but that probably belongs in another folder.
Hell say 2 vorlons and jack vs 3 shadows and Morden, but Vorlons seem to be alot rarer than Shadows
(they’ve got 3 with Morden at all times [“he’s never alone”] so Kosh, his ship, and Jack (assuming the
Vorlons didn’t “let him” die.)) Should generate some discussion. : )
Subj:: Kosh’s ship
Date: 5/26/96 9:31:13 PM
From: GeronimoDG
Posted on: America Online

I thought it was a terrible waste of a resource when Kosh’s ship went into the star. If Vorlons are so few,
then why not have the ship seek out and destroy a few shadow fighters( or a battlecruiser if it’s capable). It
was a poignant moment though.

Subj:: Kosh still mystery
Date: 5/27/96 4:42:24 AM
From: CRC2001
Posted on: America Online

One thing has remained the same throughout this series, even after his death and all this time travel stuff.
We don’t know who the vorlons are, particularly Kosh.

Subj:: possible lives
Date: 5/27/96 4:52:00 AM
From: CRC2001
Posted on: America Online

Maybe Vorlons are beings that could be if time had not changed, such as an unborn son or ancestor.

Subj:: I’ve Got it!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Date: 5/27/96 5:05:32 AM
From: CRC2001
Posted on: America Online

Before the exchanging of Human minbari souls, the minbari were the vorlons, that is why they are so rare.
Humans and the first ones, the first minbari(vorlons) were more advanced, they probably abandoned their
mix breed friends and were fought back to their homeworld where they regained strength. That is why in
the Earth Minbari war the Minbari spared earth, without eachother we can no longer exist. That is why they
can change appearance. The one could not exist without human minbari coexistance and the first ones( the
vorlons) would be alone. Well now that I finally at least have my own theory, I can sleep. Bye.

Babylon 5 Message Center /Vorlons
Subj:: I repeat
Date: 5/28/96 1:27:01 AM
From: Grimlock1
Posted on: America Online

What is the deal with that red Vorlon ship?!?!?!
Will someone at least say, “Beats me.” or, “I have no idea.”

Thanks, I needed that.

Subj:: Re:I repeat
Date: 5/28/96 9:32:15 PM
From: CRC2001
Posted on: America Online

Beats me and I would think it is probably just a different model, jeeze why is everyone so bent out of shape
about the different colors.

Subj:: Re:red guy
Date: 5/29/96 12:40:19 AM
From: Dannyboy20
Posted on: America Online

JMS has said (and it’s been stated in other folders) that the Red Vorlon was just a different color. Not all
humans come in the same shape and/or color so why should Vorlons? He said (i think) that it was just
cosmetic…nothing like rank or anything. (the Bloody Vorlon Avenger… lol )

Subj:: Danny Boy
Date: 5/29/96 9:44:29 PM
From: CRC2001
Posted on: America Online

I think you just helped clear up an issue. I assumed that the difference in color was no big deal, and so do
you. But I wonder if maybe the fact that vorlons are different color will impact the show, probably not.
Just thinking.

Subj:: Vorlon Ships
Date: 5/30/96 7:31:03 PM
From: Chavyre
Posted on: America Online

Hang on…if a Vorlon ship is an organic life form that acts like a machine; then what happens if one day a
Vorlon ship decides it no longer wants to act like a ship. It decides to act like something like an errm..errm,
a steam roller instead!!!! Ok, ok, I know it’s a pretty stupid thing to say and the chances of this happening
are pretty remote…but it’d be a bit of a bugger if it did happen!

Subj:: Re:Vorlon Ships
Date: 5/30/96 10:33:57 PM
From: CRC2001
Posted on: America Online

Actually it would make a great story. Sheridan would have to destroy the very ships that give them hope
and will have to resort to other means. Or maybe Doc. Franklin will come back with his own little organic
ship. Then we would know what his destiny is. Still a little but wacky though ha?

Subj:: Kosh is dead, long live Kosh
Date: 5/31/96 6:03:49 AM
From: Wuerthele
Posted on: America Online

How about this- Kosh has used the imperial “we” a lot (“We have always been here”, et al..). So what if
Kosh died- if the Vorlons are a hive mind. The next Vorlon would actually _be_ Kosh in all but biological
material…

-Mike

Subj:: Re:Kosh is dead, long live K
Date: 5/31/96 9:28:48 PM
From: CRC2001
Posted on: America Online

I like that one. Also, remember that as Kosh was fighting, he communicated with Sheridan by appearing in
his dream as Sheridan’s father. Is it because he was still trying to be discrete or was there some symbolism
involved.

Subj:: Re:Vorlon Ships
Date: 6/2/96 2:10:07 PM
From: Chavyre
Posted on: America Online

Yeah…come to think of it…it would be pretty cool if a Vorlon ship rebelled!!! Sort of like ‘The ship that
sang’ or something…hmmmm. maybe someone should tell JMS, but then he’s got the story all worked out
anyway…make a good subplot though.
Anyway…I was just thinking about this Ironside…or Ironhide bloke or whatever his name was. I remember
when he ‘became’ or what ever, a being of pure mental energy, made Talia a telekinetik and buggered off
into space. But he said he would see Sinclair in a million years. Maybe they should go and find him. I bet he
could kick more than a few of the Shadows asses!!!!

Subj:: Re:Kosh is dead, long live K
Date: 6/2/96 6:24:53 PM
From: JVibber
Posted on: America Online

<< Remember that as Kosh was fighting, he communicated with Sheridan by appearing in his dream as
Sheridan’s father. Is it because he was still trying to be discrete or was there some symbolism involved. >>

Kosh appeared to G’Kar as G’Kar’s father, along with a military figure and the religious figure G’Lan. He
seems to have chosen religious/mythic leaders and fathers a lot — almost as a visual way of saying, “Believe
me and trust me, I’m on your side.”

Of course, whenever somebody does that, I can’t help wondering whether there’s some reason I
SHOULDN’T trust them.
Subj:: Re:Vorlon Ships
Date: 6/3/96 9:58:58 PM
From: CRC2001
Posted on: America Online

Maybe the guy you refer to is the guy who founded the Shadows, or maybe he’s Kosh.

Subj:: Re:Kosh is dead, long live K
Date: 6/3/96 10:01:50 PM
From: CRC2001
Posted on: America Online

I agree, what better way to waste your competition than beating using the the weaker races and then wasting
them. Maybe the keepers are vorlon toys, maybe that is why Sheridan didn’t finish the war, he might not
have known the Vorlons would turn on them, that is easily backed up by his temper problem when he
strangled Sheridan.

Subj:: Re:Vorlon Ships
Date: 6/4/96 2:46:38 PM
From: Chavyre
Posted on: America Online

No, no, no, no, no!!! The bloke I’m on about used to be Talias lover he came to B5 to find sanctuary from
PsyCore. They had been pumping him up with some drug to make him more powerful…a full force TK but
he rebelled. That nasty dude who used to be Checkov on Star Trek went after him. But he turned into that
mental energy thing and ran off.
By the way what season is everyone up to on here? I’m a Brit and we’re only in season three. I’ve just seen
‘Messages from Earth’. I was just wondering…if a Shadow ship is activated by the mergance with another
being (it’s been seen what happened when a human merged..it didn’t work) what would happen if something
like a Vorlon or Mimbari merged with a shadow ship? Would we have a good Shadow ship…or an evil
Shadow ship? Worth a think…unless you’ve better things to do…

Subj:: Re:Vorlon Ships
Date: 6/4/96 8:03:17 PM
From: CRC2001
Posted on: America Online

I know what you are talking about now. That was a pretty good episode.
As for Shadow ships, I think they need telepathic humans to operate the ships in order to control them,
because the ship might be programmed to take over itself if no one responds to the controls, and finding
itself in a poor environment may be what caused it to go on a rampage.
I think I should have thought longer. Oh well.

Subj:: Re:Vorlon Ships
Date: 6/5/96 2:32:04 AM
From: DaveShufon
Posted on: America Online

<<Anyway…I was just thinking about this Ironside…or Ironhide bloke or whatever his name was. I
remember when he ‘became’ or what ever, a being of pure mental energy, made Talia a telekinetik and
buggered off into space. But he said he would see Sinclair in a million years. Maybe they should go and
find him. I bet he could kick more than a few of the Shadows asses!!!!>>

I don’t think we’ll be seeing any more of Ironheart. I think I remember JMS saying that he wasn’t going to
be making any more appearances. He said something about how he didn’t like having beings with God-like
powers hanging around complicating his storylines.

Subj:: Re:Vorlon Ships
Date: 6/5/96 2:44:45 AM
From: DaveShufon
Posted on: America Online

<<As for Shadow ships, I think they need telepathic humans to operate the ships in order to control them>>

Well, it definitely helps for them to be telepaths but I don’t think they’re required to be human. However I
think many (maybe most) of the recent ones are human.

Why the preferance for humans if they can be from any race? That’s easy – look at the different in the way
humans treat their telepaths from the other races. Only in the Earth Alliance are telepaths forced to enter
this monolithic entity and surrender all rights to a normal life. Those that don’t come willingly are arrested
and confined in special prisons. In other words, Earth has a ready supply of telepaths that could be traded
off to the Shadows without being missed.

If the Centauri or Minbari governments (or any of the others) tried to trade off hundreds, or thousands, of
telepaths to the Shadows as “weapons componants” it could not be kept quiet. People would notice the
dissapearance of so many people from their homes, families and jobs. How could the government
effectively cover something like that up?

But on Earth the Psi Corps has total control over the lives of these people. They can very easily make them
dissapear, and nobody would the wiser. I think this is why the Shadows felt it was important to infiltrate the
Earth Alliance government and aid Clark in his coup. They want to protect their supply of telepaths.

Subj:: B5/Lost in Space Connections
Date: 6/5/96 12:56:25 PM
From: Chavyre
Posted on: America Online

Ironheart’s not coming back? Well that’s poor that is, I bet he could really kick Shadow ass if he did. And
just what season is everyone up to? Has B5 gone independant? What has errm…Zack Allens desicion been?
Has he left Nightwatch? Are Cole and Ivonava an item yet? Has robot come looking for Bill Mumy? Just
what did happen to Dr. Smith and the Woman of the green mist? Oh sorry, that’s lost in space isn’t it?
Whoops!

Subj:: Re:Vorlon Ships
Date: 6/5/96 5:18:06 PM
From: CRC2001
Posted on: America Online

uh,ya but what about Valen then?

Subj:: Re:Vorlon Ships
Date: 6/5/96 5:23:01 PM
From: CRC2001
Posted on: America Online

Dave I can get that perfectly. Kind of like when the gov. needs somebody to go out and fight for something
like, oh say some guy from some OTHER political party or another country just took their favorite little
Protectorate over. Well why would he be the one to go over to the bad guy and duke it out when us suckers
in the public are eating every last drop of his propoganda.

Subj:: Kosh and Gandalf?
Date: 6/5/96 8:54:16 PM
From: H102548
Posted on: America Online

As has been said, there are many parallels between B5 and Tolkien – the ” stories within greater stories”
style is, for me, the major one. I’m not so sure Kosh is actually dead.Remember Gandalf and the balrog on
the bridge.

Subj:: Re:Kosh and Gandalf?
Date: 6/6/96 1:02:42 PM
From: Chavyre
Posted on: America Online

Kosh is dead? When the hell did this happen? Did I blink and miss it or something?

Subj:: Re:Kosh and Gandalf?
Date: 6/6/96 7:00:58 PM
From: CRC2001
Posted on: America Online

You may not be in the same season as us Chavre. But if you did miss it, he sent a fleet of Vorlons to
destroy some Shadows, and then Morden, with three of his Shadow buddies attacked him in his quarters.
As he was fighting them, he appeared to sheridan in his dream( as Sheridan’s father) to say goodbye. THen
when he died there was a huge shockwave in the station.
To anyone that saw that episode, am I the only one who heard that highpitched Shadow scream when the
Shockwave hit.

Subj:: Re:Kosh and Gandalf?
Date: 6/7/96 1:22:42 PM
From: Chavyre
Posted on: America Online

Season three’s only just started over here in Britian, I’ve just seen the episode ‘Messages from Earth’ where
the White Star destroys a Shadow ship by luring it into Jupiters atmosphere. Bit of a skuller that Kosh died,
I always thought he would be one of the survivors of the war, not like G’kar and Londo, who are obviously
gonna die!
And isn’t/wasn’t Kosh an angel or something…I thought they’d always been made out to be immortal
hmmmm….
Any more First Ones turned up BTW?

Subj:: Re:Kosh and Gandalf?
Date: 6/7/96 3:54:14 PM
From: CRC2001
Posted on: America Online

Well the feeling I got was that that Vorlon’s were what we thought were angels, but it was just a Vorlon
doing what ever it was he was doing, thus making all these angel sightings into a Vorlon Hoax or
something.

Subj:: Sorry I’m late
Date: 6/7/96 7:08:42 PM
From: Grimlock1
Posted on: America Online

1. I didn’t get bent out of shape over the red Vorlon ship, I got bent out o’ shape when nobody answered me.
2. I assumed that ship was special because of its color. If any of you have ever Southern Cross, Metal Fire,
and/or The Final Nightmare, by Jack McKinney, you’ll note that the guy in the Red Bioroid was the creme
de la creme.
3. Would have been cool if Kosh’s replacement was the pilot of the Red Vorlon. Then we find out that even
though he is equall cryptic, he is cocky, smart-ass, hotshot pilot. In WWI, the Red Baron named as such
because he decided to paint his plane red, then he amassed one of the highest kill scores I know of.
4. When Kosh bought it, I think there should have been a bigger battle. Maybe have two energy pylons
extend from his shoulders, glowing with a priming charge. The Shadows back him into a corner, using
quick strikes which he is able to deflect, but still be pushed back. But in the end gets killed, but not before
he takes a few of them with him.
5. In War Without End, were those two Vorlons on either side of Valen in (I know they were wearing them)
the same type of encounter suit as the Vorlon back on Minbar in the begining of part 1?

Boy are may hands tried

Subj:: Re:Old Ones
Date: 6/8/96 5:27:37 AM
From: SHERzipp
Posted on: America Online

Chavyre:

Yeah, you’ll see another of the old ones in the third season. Ivanova seeks them out with the help of Draal to
enlist support in the coming war.

Sher

Subj:: Re:Old Ones
Date: 6/8/96 12:32:25 PM
From: Chavyre
Posted on: America Online

Well I’ve already seen those dodgy floating aztec mask like things that Ivonana seeks out in the White Star,
‘Walkers’ I beleive I’ve seen them reffered to. That’s when she cons them into helping her by saying they
don’t need them becuase they’ve already got the Vorlons. This pisses the ‘Walkers’ off so they turn round
and decide they will help after all….hehehehehe:) So ummm..has Kosh’s preplacement turned up yet? Has
Sheridans wife? Has Vir made another appearance since G’kar went mental with the Dust drug and almost
killed Londo?

Subj:: Re:Kosh and Gandalf?
Date: 6/8/96 12:34:30 PM
From: Chavyre
Posted on: America Online

Maybe the shadow scream was Kosh taking one of the Shadows with him? I’m just assuming this becuase I
havn’t seen that episode…yet! The one this week is where Presidant Clark puts all of Eath under Marshal
law…ohhh I can’t wait! Babylon 5 kicks ass!!!

Subj:: Re:Sorry I’m late
Date: 6/10/96 1:09:57 AM
From: CRC2001
Posted on: America Online

In reference to #1, sorry,
#3 The REd Baron’s entire squadron was painted red. Also due to the fact that ww2 had so much at stake
with airpower and the fact that wihtout escorts American bombers were pretty pathetic, some German pilots
topped 200. But For ww1 the Baron kicked ass and may be the most talented ever. Unfortuanately he did
get shot down, kind of sucks, but I think he was out numbered.
#4 that would have been great!
#5 no clue.

Subj:: Re:Old Ones
Date: 6/10/96 1:10:41 AM
From: CRC2001
Posted on: America Online

Hey, are you farther ahead than us or something Sherzip?

Subj:: Re:Kosh and Gandalf?
Date: 6/10/96 1:12:22 AM
From: CRC2001
Posted on: America Online

I agree, before I stated that that energy surge when Kosh died could have been a last defense. We haven’t
seen Morden around, and that was a hell of a blast.

Subj:: Re:Old Ones
Date: 6/11/96 4:55:46 AM
From: SHERzipp
Posted on: America Online

No, CRC, I was talking about the “Aztec mask” aliens that Chavyre mentioned in his post. I wish I was
ahead, though, I can’t wait for the last four eps of the season…of course, then we’ll probably have a
cliffhanger until the 4th season. Can’t win.

Sher

Subj:: Re:Old Ones
Date: 6/11/96 4:57:59 AM
From: SHERzipp
Posted on: America Online

Chavyre:

Those were the ones. In answer to your other questions: No (maybe), sort of and yes.

Sher

Subj:: Mordon
Date: 6/11/96 10:15:35 AM
From: Chavyre
Posted on: America Online

I was just thinking…is Mordon a shadow or is he just an evil human who has been corrupted by the
shadows? And if he is a shadow, how does he retain human form? Have the shadows sort of possesed him
like the Mystrions did to Captian Black in ‘Captian Scarlet and the Mysterions’? For anyone who doesn’t
know what ‘Captian Scarlet’ was it, it was an old Gerry Anderson puppet show and yes, it was better that
Space Precienct, but that’s not very hard, lots of things are better than Space Precienct. No offence to any
Space Precienct fans, and this is a B5 message board anyway so I havn’t a clue what I’m on about.
Thanks for answering my questions though Sher.

Subj:: Re:Old Ones
Date: 6/11/96 6:00:06 PM
From: CRC2001
Posted on: America Online

Ya, they don’t want to satisfy US until they have their 5 seasons in. But that’s better because it gives me
something to watch at night.

Subj:: Re:Kosh and Gandalf?
Date: 6/11/96 7:26:01 PM
From: HAL MMI
Posted on: America Online

wake up! We saw Morden in the practicaly the next seen(the one where he convinves Londo to accept help
from the Shadows again) Morden is alive and well at the end of the episode.

Subj:: Re:Morden
Date: 6/12/96 2:40:15 AM
From: SHERzipp
Posted on: America Online
I think Morden is still human, but he’s either decided to work with the Shadows, is a “puppet” of theirs or
his body has been hijacked. The answer becomes especially important considering Anna Sheridan is coming
back and like Morden, she was also on the Icarus when it disappeared. If she’s not a Shadow agent, how did
she avoid it? If she is, is it voluntary or not?

Subj:: Re:Morden
Date: 6/12/96 4:58:39 AM
From: JVibber
Posted on: America Online

<< I think Morden is still human, but he’s either decided to work with the Shadows, is a “puppet” of theirs
or his body has been hijacked. >>

What I find especially creepy is the possibility that once you understood what the Shadows really want, you
might decide to join them, voluntarily. Is there a serious possibility that the bad things they do are merely
an application of “the end justifies the means” by a desperate race?
Subj:: Re:Kosh and Gandalf?
Date: 6/13/96 5:09:11 PM
From: CRC2001
Posted on: America Online

I thought that was before he killed Kosh.

Subj:: Re:Kosh and Gandalf?
Date: 6/13/96 5:09:59 PM
From: CRC2001
Posted on: America Online

Sorry, you took that a little personally didn’t ya?

Subj:: Re:Vorlons on Earth
Date: 6/15/96 3:10:56 PM
From: Pipes End
Posted on: America Online

< They are HARDLY divine beings! Horrible manipulators, bending peoples’ wills to their own purposes,
is closer.>
Any comments on their visits to Earth, perhaps in the guise of Gabriel?

Pipes

Subj:: Re:Vorlons on Earth
Date: 6/16/96 3:54:07 PM
From: CRC2001
Posted on: America Online

Almost exclusively to Earth I would say, we above all seem to have the most fascination with the angels that
they appear to us as.

Subj:: Re:Vorlons on Earth
Date: 6/16/96 6:32:05 PM
From: FreqSh0w
Posted on: America Online

I’m not sure about that CRC, Delenn got pretty dreamy looking when Kosh came out of his suit to help
Sheridan.

Subj:: Traitors!
Date: 6/17/96 11:08:27 AM
From: Chavyre
Posted on: America Online

uh…I know this is pretty old stuff, but I’m a Brit so as most of you know, I’m a bit behind. Last nights
episode of B5 was “Severed Dreams” and I remember a message here about Ivonnava standing in front of a
torn Nightwatch poster. I think last nights episode showed that scene, there was a bit of discussion about the
possibility of Ivonnava being a traitor. But also in that episode is a scene where Garabaldi and all his men
are running down a corridor and straight past another torn Nightwatch poster…could he be a traitor?
I know this has absolutly nothing to do with Vorlons Shadows or any other First Ones, but what the hell!

Subj:: Re:Morden
Date: 6/18/96 8:08:58 PM
From: CHarri5613
Posted on: America Online

Morden is still human but he is a collaborater. Remeber when Sheridan put him in “protective Custody”.
This was when he was told how his wife’s ship awakened the shadows. Who then gave the crew a choice
work with us or die! Obviously Morden chose the first option. As to Sheridan’s wife I don’t know but if you
saw the episode where the Valen Myth was exposed you saw Delinn have a premonition. She was in
Sheridan’s quarters drinking tea watching him sleep when the door opened and she dropped her tea and
looked like she had seen a ghost. Possibly the return of Mrs. Sheriden????

Subj:: Re:Vorlons on Earth
Date: 6/18/96 8:48:14 PM
From: CRC2001
Posted on: America Online

aah yes, you are correct, many others as well. But notice each had a different face, or was percieved that
way by the others, so maybe many races have angels, or some being of light that Kosh appeared to them as.
Which is actually exactly what John Copeland told me in another folder, I think.

Subj:: Re:Traitors!
Date: 6/18/96 8:55:23 PM
From: CRC2001
Posted on: America Online

Well, Chavyre, I think that when the producer JOhn copeland responded to my messages, yes you are right
about the posters existance, but I think we decided that it was simply to show the discontent of the
babylonians with the NightWatch. However later I stated that the music at the end and the focus on Ivanova
and the poster. JC replied by giving me the most indirect hint I ever saw, but it was about Delenn. One
other possibility is that she shuddered at the thought of herself being caught by, Oh………….. say Garibaldi.
I figure that in one way or another there will be sabotage on the station, and Ivanova/Garibaldi may be
involved.

Subj:: Ivonnana dead?
Date: 6/19/96 11:42:10 AM
From: Chavyre
Posted on: America Online

I’ve heard a viscious rumour going round that Ivonnana is gonna be killed off…pretty soon by the sounds of
it! How can they do this? Who are we gonna lust after on B5 when she’s gone? Ay? Ay? Answer me that!
This has as little to do with Vorlons as my last message..whahey!

Subj:: Re:Ivonnana dead?
Date: 6/26/96 6:18:03 PM
From: JWM3A
Posted on: America Online

As I understand it, the opening narration is done from a future perspective, as one who is retelling a story.
It would seem very unlikely, then, that Ivanova would snuff it!

Oh, by the way, I wonder if there are any outtakes from Susan’s dream sequence “totally unprepared for
work”. How’s that for all you Ivanova lusters?

Subj:: Re:good v evilI
Date: 6/26/96 7:41:30 PM
From: Kestanan
Posted on: America Online

If Kosh is a religios figure to all races and he is supposed to be the embodiment of good then what about the
thousands of evil acts commited by humans and god knows what other races in the name of religion and
good?

Subj:: Re:good v evilI
Date: 6/27/96 12:37:34 AM
From: SHedr24734
Posted on: America Online

Sometimes acts are evil only in retrospect. At the time, they seem good.

Subj:: Re:good v evilI
Date: 6/27/96 4:29:11 PM
From: CRC2001
Posted on: America Online

Ya, talk about a contradiction in terms, IN THE NAME OF THE LORD, ALL OF YOU WHO DISAGREE
WITH ME MUST DIE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I will never understand that. There hypocrits, running at each other
screaming the name of a god who told them “thou Shalt not kill” with machine guns blazing in their hands.

BAD

Subj:: Re:good v evilI
Date: 6/27/96 4:30:29 PM
From: CRC2001
Posted on: America Online

The thing is, to many races, the Vorlons appear to be angels, which at least in our case is a symbol of hope
and peace, or atleast the Hope FOR peace.

Subj:: Re:good v evilI
Date: 6/28/96 7:05:05 AM
From: JVibber
Posted on: America Online

<< Ya, talk about a contradiction in terms, IN THE NAME OF THE LORD, ALL OF YOU WHO
DISAGREE WITH ME MUST DIE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I will never understand that. There hypocrits, running
at each other screaming the name of a god who told them “thou Shalt not kill” with machine guns blazing in
their hands. >>

Perhaps that’s why JMS titled one episode “The War Prayer,” a reference to a story by Mark Twain which
centered on exactly that sort of hypocrisy.
Subj:: Re:good v evilI
Date: 6/28/96 3:31:37 PM
From: CRC2001
Posted on: America Online

JVibber I hope you didn’t think I was reffering to B5, I was referring to religeous war in general. I believe
at sometime during that episode JMS made it clear that he basically felt the same way as most of do.

Subj:: Re:good v evilI
Date: 6/30/96 4:46:05 AM
From: Uxi10801
Posted on: America Online

how bout we keep the topic on vorlons, not on religious fantatics or judging other peoples (past, present and
… : ) future) based on our own morality, such as it is, CRC2001

Subj:: Re:good v evilI
Date: 7/4/96 7:21:04 PM
From: Kydreamer
Posted on: America Online

A little diversity never hurts a discussion and can lead to greater understanding of B5 and, incidentally
ourselves.

Subj:: Re:good v evilI
Date: 7/5/96 12:43:22 AM
From: CRC2001
Posted on: America Online

<<how bout we keep the topic on vorlons, not on religious fantatics or judging other peoples (past, present
and … : ) future) based on our own morality, such as it is, CRC2001>>

Boy, if you don’t find it strange that they fight over who’s religeon is right, when usually they both say thou
shalt not kill, or something like that, then you obviously need to pay attention to the news, cause those
people waste each other for a very stupid reason. You don’t like that do you Uxi10801.

Subj:: Re:good v evilI
Date: 7/5/96 12:47:12 AM
From: CRC2001
Posted on: America Online

As long as I’m still on the

Subj:ect, I am ending my end of it by saying that the only religeous war I will fight is good v evil, just like
the

Subj:ect above says.
The similarity is that the Vorlons (good) have launched propagandas against the Shadows (evil) teaching
others to fight the temptations. While the shadows sit back and prey on the weak. Atleast that’s what I
came up with, any remarks?

Subj:: Re:Vorlons and Shadows…
Date: 7/6/96 10:53:25 PM
From: Gazooh
Posted on: America Online

It would seem that the Vorlons are our “friends.” Although its possible the Vorlons wanted to get an
alliance formed against the Shadows for their own reasons, it seemed like it was a good thing for us ~ earth
and the others, since we were getting our butts whipped, and the Shadows seem to have no interest in
communicating with anyone about anything ~ other than the Centauri, but that’s to keep other races fighting
amongst themselves so the Shadows can just march in and destroy. Also, recall the B5 episode where
Delenn describes the Vorlons as being the “First Ones,” and “keepers of light.” An interesting discussion,
though!

Subj:: Vorlons ~ friends or foes.
Date: 7/6/96 11:07:33 PM
From: Gazooh
Posted on: America Online

Regardless of their intent, is anybody aware that the Vorlons have a cook book out with an INCREDIBLE
recipe for Chicken Soup??? It was on the Home Shopping Network not too long ago! WOW!!!

Subj:: Vorlons are…….
Date: 7/7/96 6:20:02 PM
From: CRC2001
Posted on: America Online

When Sheridan asked Kosh for help, Kosh said something like there aren’t enough Vorlons yet. I think that
it takes them a long time to fully develope, the Vorlon we see in WWE1 when we first see Sinclair could
still be developing. Also I don’t think that the keepers are Shadows. They could be the Vorlons since they
have kind of a green tint. Somebody might argue by asking what is whispering in Clarks ear, and I would
have to say it’s the same things whispering in Morden’s ears.

Subj:: Re:Vorlons are…….
Date: 7/7/96 7:09:25 PM
From: LLarson10
Posted on: America Online

The keepers aren’t Shadows or … Vorlons. They are Shadow lackeys. Minions, servants.

Babylon 5 Message Center /Vorlons
Subj:: Re:Vorlons are…….
Date: 7/8/96 12:03:54 PM
From: EAberneth
Posted on: America Online

Hey,that’s not a bad thought. I hadn’t thought of that before. You could be right. But what if you are wrong?

Subj:: I’ve been gone FAR too long.
Date: 7/8/96 12:57:32 PM
From: Chavyre
Posted on: America Online

Weel ,it’s been a while since I’ve been here, but I’m back with my pointless views and irrelevant chit chat
just to keep you yanks amused and to prove that all are Brit’s are indeed…insane!
As Pantera sing : Religion is old, purity withers and dies. ‘Nuff said on that

Subj:ect.
Yep, I agree, a bit of diversity in this place is good. I mean, barely anyone knows what direction JMS is
taking B5 in anyway, so what the hell!
I did enjoy it when Ivonnava dreamt she turned up ‘unprepared’ for work, if only | could have seen more!
Errrm the Vorlons haven’t madfe an appearance on B5 for weeks over here(well, the series was interrupted
by the bloody Tour De France!) So I have nothing to say about them, once again!
Oh and God isn’t real, it’s a race of aliens that tried to take over the world!

Subj:: Re:Vorlons are…….
Date: 7/9/96 3:29:40 AM
From: CRC2001
Posted on: America Online

<<Hey,that’s not a bad thought. I hadn’t thought of that before. You could be right. But what if you are
wrong?>>

Why thank you.
If I’m wrong, well I’m sure JMS and JC will still make it interesting, infact I trust them on that one.

Subj:: Re:I’ve been gone FAR too lo
Date: 7/9/96 3:33:41 AM
From: CRC2001
Posted on: America Online

<<Errrm the Vorlons haven’t madfe an appearance on B5 for weeks over here(well, the series was
interrupted by the bloody Tour De France!) So I have nothing to say about them, once again!
Oh and God isn’t real, it’s a race of aliens that tried to take over the world!>>

What the uh…. y…… je………. da……….s……. f……. heck!?
I agree with one thing, Tour De France, who cares? I think you are referring to the fact that Vorlons appear
as angels to a lot of the races. Hey, not all Brits are crazy, just the ones that live in Britain. He hE, just
kiddin, well just a little anyway.

Subj:: Re:Vorlons are…….
Date: 7/13/96 5:13:39 AM
From: The Stumps
Posted on: America Online

I have a point to make that is completely plausible, but since it is something that someone, namely me, other
than JMS would think of, it probably won’t come to pass:

a. In “All alone in the night” Kosh says “We were never away, for the first time you mind is quiet enough to
hear me…. ” and “You have always been here”

b. In the first episode of this season Kosh said, “I have always been here….”, which he repeated in dust to
dust.

I think that Sheridan will become a Vorlon and if both he and Kosh have always been here, then perhaps
Sheridan is Kosh. — Don’t tell JMS, because, in the unlikely event that I am right, he would probably
change the ending if someone ever guessed it.

I think that the Vorlons might not be a species at all, but something else. What I don’t know.

Subj:: Re:Vorlons are…….
Date: 7/14/96 5:11:19 AM
From: CRC2001
Posted on: America Online

STumps, I have often thought of that, but I think they are probably a race.

Subj:: Re:Sheridan becoming Vorlon
Date: 7/14/96 2:45:28 PM
From: Abacus PC
Posted on: America Online

Sheridan will be Kosh? Bosh!

Sheridan represents Humanity as a race, just as Londo and Vir represent the best and worst of the Centauri.
With lots of other characters going through changes, we need a sense of constancy here, and I believe that
Sheridan is it.

AbacusPC

Subj:: Re:Sheridan becoming Vorlon
Date: 7/16/96 9:02:24 PM
From: The Stumps
Posted on: America Online

You are probably right, I am just attempting to make sense out of Kosh-sayings. That and I don’t
want him/it really to be dead. But unlike Star Trek, it was left very much up in the air if he/it were dead —
in Star Trek they are really dead until the actor wants back in the script or they run short on story ideas. As
it is, Kosh is probably dead — but no body, if it/he had one.

Whatever Sheridan will be, he isn’t going to stay just as he is. He is The One of the future. And he has
always been here. If anybody figures that out (other than JMS) please, please tell me.

 

Subj:: Encounter Suits
Date: 7/17/96 3:51:57 AM
From: FJannusch
Posted on: America Online

I noticed that the encounter suit worn by the Vorlon on Minbar after Sinclair receives His message in
WWOE # I is Different from Kosh’s. It had standing up double points on the shoulders whereas Kosh’s
encounter suit had Wings at rest, behind the shoulders. It is also interesting that the Vorlons
asked that Kosh’s encounter suit be placed upon his ship after Kosh dies.

Subj:: Re:Sheridan becoming Vorlon
Date: 7/17/96 5:00:05 AM
From: CRC2001
Posted on: America Online

Stumps

Kosh may be dead but his legand is still his strength, we’ll here more of his death I bet.

Subj:: Re:Encounter Suits
Date: 7/17/96 5:01:44 AM
From: CRC2001
Posted on: America Online

<<It is also interesting that the Vorlons asked that Kosh’s encounter suit be placed upon his ship after Kosh
dies.>>

Kind of brings back the days of the Vikings, putting everything the person owned with him on a burning
ship and sending them off on the river.

Subj:: Re:Sheridan becoming Vorlon
Date: 7/20/96 1:01:07 AM
From: CatDeville
Posted on: America Online

Consider that Vorlons may percieve time as non-linear.

When time is considered as non-linear, we have _all_ always been here. What is, has always been and will
always be… nothing is ever created or destroyed since time does not begin or end, it just *is*.

That’s the way I have interpreted what Kosh says.

never thirst,
cat

Subj:: Re:Sheridan becoming Vorlon
Date: 7/20/96 4:56:17 AM
From: JVibber
Posted on: America Online

<< When time is considered as non-linear, we have _all_ always been here. What is, has always been and
will always be… nothing is ever created or destroyed since time does not begin or end, it just *is*. >>

Or, saying it another way: To “are” is Vorlon. <vbg>
Subj:: Kosh
Date: 7/20/96 8:29:53 PM
From: Chavyre
Posted on: America Online

But all Kosh ever said when ever he appeared was ‘I have always been here’! This was usually after spouting
crap that will probably make sense as time wears on! And I still haven’t seen him die!

And isn’t Sheridan in line for marrying Delenn or something? How the hell can he become a Vorlon. It’s the
episode ‘Ship of Tears’ this week on this side of the atlantic. Looks like Bester will be making another
appearance. Bloody hell was Star Trek not enough for him?

Chavyre

Subj:: Re:Kosh
Date: 7/20/96 10:35:21 PM
From: MAli402861
Posted on: America Online

>>>Looks like Bester will be making another appearance. Bloody hell was Star Trek not enough for
him?<<<
AN ACTOR IS ALWAYS HUNGRY FOR NEW ROLES.
That’s an universal rule of acting.
Besides, in Star Trek he was always a minor supporting character, we hardly ever saw an episode that wasn’t
centered on the greatest scene-stealer of them all…James T. Kirk.
In B5, Walter Koenig has a beautiful creepy character, three dimensional, and Bester is not absolutely black
or white, good or bad, he is in between. I see great possibilities to explore this character further. ….Besides,
he is getting now more screen time than Chekov was ever allowed in the original series.
Subj:: Re:Kosh
Date: 7/21/96 6:05:53 PM
From: CRC2001
Posted on: America Online

Ship of tears eh, well next ep then ya crazy freekin Brit. Just kiddin man, I like you Brits……. no really, I
do. heh heh heh heh heh. See ya later Chavyre.

CRC

Subj:: Re: Encounter Suits
Date: 7/28/96 2:17:15 AM
From: FJannusch
Posted on: America Online

The Vorlons that were with Valen also had encounter suits. I thought Delenn said Kosh wore his suit so the
Shadows would not recognise the presence of the Vorlons,one of their old enemies. These encounter suits
must have another purpose. Suppose Vorlons are energy beings and must wear their encounter suits so their
energy doesn’t disappate in an oxygen atmosphere. After all, Kosh lives in another atmosphere on B5. After
saving Sheridan from the fall from the shuttle, Kosh spends a week on his ship recooperating. Was the
energy loss that great out of the encounter suit or was he just avoiding paperazi? If this is right, then Kosh
could say “I have always been here,” but no one would understand what he meant.

Subj:: Re:Sheridan becoming Vorlon
Date: 8/13/96 8:02:42 AM
From: GaryC90503
Posted on: America Online

AbacusPC: <<Sheridan represents Humanity as a race, just as Londo and Vir represent the best and worst
of the Centauri. With lots of other characters going through changes, we need a sense of constancy here, and
I believe that Sheridan is it.>>

While Vir is clearly the best of the Centauri, I would argue that Londo is typical of the race, while Lord
Refa (and Lyndesty :->) represent the worst.

Subj:: Re: Encounter Suits
Date: 8/13/96 8:05:16 AM
From: GaryC90503
Posted on: America Online

In the scene where the Mimbari first meet Valen, the Vorlons had encounter suits, but weren’t wearing them.

Subj:: Walkabout.
Date: 8/21/96 9:48:22 PM
From: Chavyre
Posted on: America Online

My American friends. As I understasnd it, you haven’t seen any episodes after WWOE II. If you want to
know what happens in the next episode ‘Walkabout’ please email me and I’ll be happy to tell you. But some
VERY interesting things happen. Incl;uding the arrival of the New Vorlon ambassador. Hope that’s wet
your appatites. And let’s just say someone was right about a few things concerning Vorlon’s.

Email would be better, becuase I have to pay the net bill so don’t like spending too much time online.

Richard.

Subj:: Re:Walkabout.
Date: 8/22/96 3:33:26 PM
From: LynnRAllen
Posted on: America Online

Oooh…that sounds like teasing to me. You may not realize how desparate for news we are!

Lynn

Subj:: Re:Confused
Date: 8/23/96 9:00:02 PM
From: W Rider12
Posted on: America Online

You all have no idea what it’s like to love B5 and miss key exciting episodes, like THE LAST ONE! So if
anyone could fill me in. Also, everyone is saying, how the Vorlons are good and above everyone, but that’s
just crap. We’d say the same thing if the (damn, forget the name) mask creatures (you know, the ones who
hate Vorlons and have the GIANT circular ship) were helping against the Shadows. Just because the
Vorlons are more advanced doesn’t make their motives correct, especially since they keep to themselves.
Secrecy is dangerous, ESPECIALLY in war. I think since time has no meaning for Vorlons (hunch) we are
going to find out that Kosh, once revealed, will be more familiar than we think.

Subj:: Re:vorlons
Date: 8/24/96 12:11:15 AM
From: JdiJade
Posted on: America Online

>>. Also, everyone is saying, how the Vorlons are good and above everyone, but that’s just crap.

I agree that the Vorlons are not perfect, and that their motives are not always above board. After all, in the
episode where Kosh dies, one of the last things he confesses to Sheridan is that he was sorry for not
helping with the Shadow war sooner, admitted he was wrong, and that his motives were selfish because he
knew what was coming and didn’t want to face it (his death). Guess they are closer to human than we
thought eh? 😉

Subj:: Re:vorlons
Date: 8/25/96 2:30:09 PM
From: CRC2001
Posted on: America Online

I am starting ot wonder as well. I just saw the episode where Ivanova and Marcus take the white star out to
find some of the first ones and just happened to make contact with one that just happens to not like the
Vorlons.

CRC

Subj:: Vorlons Good?
Date: 8/25/96 6:27:15 PM
From: WifeAgain
Posted on: America Online

A tree is known by its fruit. The Vorlons aren’t perfect, which is normal. Only God is perfect. But they
don’t go around killing intelligent beings for no (explained) reason. Maybe the Vorlons try to influence
creatures, but humans try to influence each other all the time. Ever see a commercial? I still vote Vorlons,
good — Shadows, evil.

Subj:: Re:Vorlons Good?
Date: 8/25/96 11:30:23 PM
From: MythoPhile
Posted on: America Online

I vote Vorlons bad, Shadows much worse.

Subj:: Re:Vorlons Good?
Date: 8/25/96 11:38:17 PM
From: Miles1005
Posted on: America Online

<A tree is known by its fruit. The Vorlons aren’t perfect, which is normal. Only God is perfect. But they
don’t go around killing intelligent beings for no (explained) reason. Maybe the Vorlons try to influence
creatures, but humans try to influence each other all the time. Ever see a commercial? I still vote Vorlons,
good — Shadows, evil.>

Wasn’t it God who made it rain for 40 days, effectively killing everyone except for Noah, his family and his
zoo? Didn’t God destroy the cities of Sodom and Gomorrah? Yeah, he supposedly destroyed them because
of the sins and evil in those cities, but, I’ll bet those killed weren’t too happy with his decision! We have yet
to actually find out what the motives are behind the Shadows, but, they haven’t done anything that God
hasn’t done already!

Miles

Subj:: Good vs Evil
Date: 8/27/96 3:52:01 AM
From: TheLadyT
Posted on: America Online

The Vorlons are neither good nor evil. They just are. Also, they happened to have been around for a long
time, so I’d say they know a lot more about what this war is all about than the humans, Mimbari, etc. Who
are we to criticize their motives without knowing what they know? We simply speculate based on what we
know. Remember one thing: WE DON’T KNOW what this war’s all about–they probably do; they’re just
not telling, and may have a very valid reason why.

But, then again, maybe they are manipulating the crap outa the humans (hehe).

With Light and Love,
The Lady T Rides On….

Subj:: Re:Good vs Evil
Date: 8/27/96 7:44:01 PM
From: W Rider12
Posted on: America Online

If choosing the Vorlons means choosing the lesser of two evils, well, then I’m against them. I think the
Vorlons were seriously injured in the first Shadow war, and their secrecy keeps it hidden. Of course, the
show would never get rid of them, but I guess I’m just cautious against them because they really haven’t
shown any major faults.

Subj:: Re:Good vs Evil
Date: 8/28/96 5:01:05 AM
From: MythoPhile
Posted on: America Online

The Vorlons seem to be claiming that they “stuck around” (when the First One races desperately want to
be moving on to pastures new) out of a sense of benevolence, a duty to the younger races. Assuming this
isn’t the case (and I doubt JMS would give us an essentially “good” race), they must have some other motive
for hanging around. Perhaps it’s just a case of wanting to be a big fish in a little pond. And the Shadows
are the only other really big fish left.

Subj:: Re:Good vs Evil
Date: 8/28/96 5:35:33 AM
From: Jasonb94
Posted on: America Online

>>And the Shadows are the only other really big fish left.

Wouldn’t it figure if they liked to be big fish that they would be more inclined to throw their weight around.
To my recollection the Vorlons have not been to eager to have anything to do with anyone else. At least not
officially.

I am still wondering about the fact that they have been involved enough in the spirituality of every major
group on the station that Kosh resembled religous figures. Also the fact that the Vorlons have picked up
individuals from Earth’s past and essentially put them in deep freeze until needed (eg the inquistioner).

I guess for me the jury is still out if the Vorlons are a “good” race. But they do seem to allow the other races
more free choice of their actions – while the shadows are clearly eliminating different power groups.

Basically I am waiting anxiously for a new epsiode to gain more insights.

Subj:: Re:Good vs Evil
Date: 8/28/96 9:33:38 PM
From: LynnRAllen
Posted on: America Online

I’m not convinced there are any truly “good” races. Look at all the species we’ve encountered on the show;
you can find really repugnant characters in each, as well as really commendable ones. Humans are supposed
to be good guys, but remember what Earth has been doing, destroying the Mars colony and other such nasty
actions. Ambition, avarice and hatred seem to be found in all the races. Perhaps the Vorlons shouldn’t be
held to a higher standard?

Subj:: Re:Good Races
Date: 8/29/96 1:07:20 AM
From: TheLadyT
Posted on: America Online

LynnRAllen’s got that right–there are not truly “good” races. (But, then again, I think there are no truly
“bad” races either.) However, I think the Vorlons are going to surprise us. I think that the Vorlons are
holding/held back because the universe wasn’t ready for them to get into the fight; I also think that at the end
of this war they’re going to hand us a pretty big surprise.

Any thoughts?

The Lady T Rides On….

Subj:: Re:Good Races
Date: 8/29/96 4:12:35 PM
From: LynnRAllen
Posted on: America Online

<< I think that the Vorlons are holding/held back because the universe wasn’t ready for them to get into the
fight; I also think that at the end of this war they’re going to hand us a pretty big surprise.>>

Our own personal encounter suits (used), maybe??
😉
Lynn

Subj:: vorlon theory
Date: 9/7/96 10:50:30 PM
From: KCandLW
Posted on: America Online

Here’s my theory as to who the Vorlons are. I’ve read all the posts in this folder, and to my knowledge, no
one has put forth the following theory:

I think that the Vorlons are telepaths, of a variety of races, who have undergone some form of
metamorphosis, which has allowed them to escape the limitations of their previous corporeal forms.
Already blessed with superior mental powers when in their original bodies, the transformation enhances and
expands their mental powers and abilities changing the nature of their being.

Has anyone besides me noted the similarity in appearance between G’Kar and Kosh? Kosh and G’Kar have
the same general mottling, G’Kar’s on his head, Kosh on his encounter suit. The collar that G’Kar wears
(high around the ears) also seems similar to the shape of Kosh’s encounter suit. My thesis is that a vorlon,
to honor his/her former existence, chooses an encounter suit which incorporates the features of its former
body. I think Kosh was originally a Narn.

Thus, the vorlon on Minbar, when Sinclair left to go back to Babylon 4, was originally a Minbari, hence the
“points” (noted previously in a post by FJannusch <<I noticed that the encounter suit worn by the Vorlon on
Minbar after Sinclair receives His message in WWOE # I is Different from Kosh’s. It had standing up
double points on the shoulders whereas Kosh’s encounter suit had Wings at rest, behind the shoulders.>>)
on his encounter suit.

Recall the episode in which Garibaldi deciphered the message of the book G’kuan (a feeble phonetic
attempt at the spelling) that G’Kar had given him. There once were Narn telepaths. In the old war a
thousand years ago, many of the “mind walkers” were killed (taken by the Shadows to run their ships????)
then the ones who were left, rose up and defeated the enemy. How? They didn’t say, but my thinking is
they became vorlons. That’s why they’re aren’t enough vorlons yet, (as noted in CRC2001’s post <<When
Sheridan asked Kosh for help, Kosh said something like there aren’t enough Vorlons yet. I think that it
takes them a long time to fully develop, the Vorlon we see in WWE1 when we first see Sinclair could still
be developing.>> ), not because they are still developing, but because enough telepaths have yet to be
metamorphosed for this war.

The Shadows kidnap telepaths and force them to do their bidding, the vorlons have a more difficult path to
gain members as they only take willing telepaths (is my theory)– and as vorlons are obviously long lived
and can influence other beings (with visions), it’s not a little responsibility that each vorlon has to assume
and handle. You just don’t go handing pseudo-omniscience to just anyone.

So, I think that Lita Alexander is in the process of becoming a vorlon. That’s part of what we saw in Kosh’s
quarters. The shadows are kidnapping human telepaths to put them in their ships– and clearly human
telepaths can affect (as Bester did) the ships activities. And who better to defeat a human powered fleet
than other humans? Just as 1,000 years ago Narn telepaths were used to defeat the shadows, in this war, the
role of human telepaths will be crucial. That’s not to say that all human telepaths will become shadows or
vorlons, but clearly (to my mind) the telepaths are the key to the solution– just as the book of G’Kuan
indicated in the last war.

This is my theory.
Subj:: Re:vorlon theory
Date: 9/8/96 7:02:14 AM
From: Jasonb94
Posted on: America Online

KCandLW – I really find your theory very interesting. So how do you suppose the that idea may work with
the Psi Corps goal to rule the Earth Alliance – or at least that was Bester’s stated goal. Do the current
vorlons you suppose make the choice of who they recruit and do the telepaths have to be relatively high in
level – like p12? or could latent telepaths such as Ivaniva be recruited as well?

Subj:: Re:vorlon theory
Date: 9/9/96 5:41:26 AM
From: JVibber
Posted on: America Online

On a related issue, I understand that by the time we have seen the “final 5″ episodes of Season 3, we will
know how telepaths originated on Earth. That a special origin has to be explained makes me think that
SOMEBODY started the process, maybe the Vorlons — or the Shadows!
Subj:: Re:vorlon theory
Date: 9/9/96 3:23:12 PM
From: Fafayin
Posted on: America Online

Or, maybe telepaths started to develop on Earth once Minbari souls started migrating to humans 1000 years
ago.
Lynn

Subj:: What i think vorlons are.
Date: 9/11/96 7:54:10 PM
From: Kevin KPK
Posted on: America Online

Hi,
I beleive that how (those things with the bones sticking out of there heads) souls were being reborn into
humans, human souls may have been being reborn into vorlons. With such a combined soul structure who
is to say that vorlons do not become the ‘good-guy’ ancient ones.

Well, thats my theory and if anyone has some comments about it please e-mail me

Kevin KPK

ps. i also posted a version of this in the KOSH IS DEAD folder

Subj:: Web page.
Date: 9/11/96 8:40:31 PM
From: EINSTAIN
Posted on: America Online

http://members.aol.com/EINSTAIN/einstainsw.html

Check out this web page.
I know this isn’t related to B5 but still have a look.

Subj:: New Kosh
Date: 9/14/96 6:38:06 PM
From: TDavis3407
Posted on: America Online

Did you guys here that a new Vorlon is gonna replace Kosh.

Subj:: Re:vorlon theory
Date: 9/14/96 8:09:35 PM
From: KCandLW
Posted on: America Online

<<So how do you suppose the that idea may work with the Psi Corps goal to rule the Earth Alliance – or at
least that was Bester’s stated goal.>>

I think that an important and fascinating portion of the story will be the balancing and interplay of Bester
and the psi corps, the vorlons and the shadows. It’s hard (no, make that impossible) to imagine Bester as a
vorlon, and since he knows of the shadows– and his power against them, he won’t be with them. It may be
that it will come down to a number of human telepaths becoming vorlons, then pursuading and leading the
remaining telepaths against the shadows.

<<Do the current vorlons you suppose make the choice of who they recruit and do the telepaths have to be
relatively high in level – like p12? or could latent telepaths such as Ivaniva be recruited as well?>>

My thought is that to be a vorlon you must be a telepath of superior strength– and my understanding of the
B5 universe is that for a telepath to reach his/her full potential requires training. So I don’t think Ivanova is
a condidate. I do think however, that her latent telepathic powers will play a role in the future story
development. LW

Subj:: Re:vorlon theory
Date: 9/14/96 8:10:12 PM
From: KCandLW
Posted on: America Online

<<Or, maybe telepaths started to develop on Earth once Minbari souls started migrating to humans 1000
years ago.>>

According to JVibber’s post, we should find out soon enough.

LW

Subj:: Waterworld
Date: 9/15/96 7:03:04 PM
From: JVibber
Posted on: America Online

I’ve been thinking about Vorlon biotechnology, and keep finding myself drawn to the conclusion that the
Vorlons are aquatic beings — or that, at least, their biotechnology is. Consider the following:

1. Vorlon ships look a lot like squids. Perhaps a better choice is cuttlefish — squid-like creatures that
change the color and texture of their skin to provide camouflage, reflect their mood, and perhaps even to
communicate. Watching Kosh’s ship change colors and even produce writing is very much like an
advanced version of watching a cuttlefish at an aquarium. (And if you have never had this experience, run
out to the nearest aquarium at the earliest opportunity. These beasties are WEIRD!)

2. Kosh’s encounter suit has tubes and blowholes that look a lot like squid jets.

3. On Earth, the cetaceans (whales, dolphins, etc.) communicate by squeaks, whistles, and long drawn-out
tones, which has led us to the term “whale songs.” These sounds travel very well in a liquid environment.
It has been said that a whale in the Atlantic can actually send a message to whales in the Pacific.
Presumably, some whales in between serve as relays. Vorlons seem to describe communication in terms of
“singing.”

Maybe everybody who tried landing on the Vorlon homeworld discovered too late that their WAS no land,
and drowned. 😉

But, seriously, I find myself thinking of Vorlons in terms of whales, dolphins, etc.
Subj:: Re:New Kosh
Date: 10/5/96 10:15:28 PM
From: HAL MMI
Posted on: America Online

I personaly believe that the new Vorlon embassador is either evil or insane. Just an impression.

Subj:: New Kosh
Date: 10/5/96 10:49:18 PM
From: IanHeslop
Posted on: America Online

Errr…I would just like to point out that there is an another Vorlon ambassador and he’s bloody annoying
(yes…more annoying than Kosh) and he’s omly appeared once! And the likelyhood of Kosh being dead is
very…unlikely. You American personages will see what I mean when you see the end of season three:)

Richard.

Subj:: Re:New Kosh
Date: 10/6/96 1:11:11 AM
From: Grimlock1
Posted on: America Online

I got the feeling that there was more of a connection between Kosh and Lyta than she let on. Perhaps it was
something akin to love?
For him it would probably be like an adult dealing with a teenager’s infatuation.
And how the heck does the new guy expect to pass for Kosh in the new encounter suit and red ship?
What are they gonna say? “He went back to homeworld for a new paint job and a fresh wardrobe.”
Yeah, right!

Subj:: Re:New Kosh
Date: 10/6/96 3:32:20 AM
From: Luna457954
Posted on: America Online

Grimlock, you are the first person who has agreed with me that Lyta was in love with Kosh. I know this
sounds silly, but I really felt the scene in “Divided Loyalties was a romantic one (on Lyta’s part anyway).
I also think that Kosh truly loved Sheridan, like a father/son relationship. And not because he appeared
in a dream as Sheridan’s father either. I think Kosh truly cared for him. Just a feeling….
…What could Lyta have seen in Kosh’s mind to make her love him? A human and a Vorlon… go figure….!

Subj:: My two cents about new one
Date: 10/6/96 7:05:45 PM
From: Wheels2082
Posted on: America Online

It could be possibly explained that he decided to get a new encounter suit on his last trip to the home planet.
However, don’t know how many people would buy that idea but a creative way of explaining it.
The new ship could be explained that he traded in his old ship for a new on the same trip to the home
planet.
The attitude is a definite problem. Could be explained that he has become enlightened from a pilgrimage
that he took while on his home planet. However, again how many people would buy that explanation.

Dawn

Subj:: Re:My two cents about new one
Date: 10/6/96 8:02:09 PM
From: Jasonb94
Posted on: America Online

I assume that part of the explaination will be that – few people ever see kosh anyway – so they may not
notice the difference. It isn’t like he is a public figure like Londo or G’Kar.

I too thought that it seemed like the new Vorlon had a definite attitude problem. While kosh could seem
cold and confusing at times he never seemed quite so belligerent and rude as the new Vorlon. Perhaps they
are still in mourning.

Finally it did seem to me that Lytia was reacting like she had a much closer relationship to Kosh then I
previsously thought. What came to my mind was the scene in Star Trek III where Spock’s father is looking
for a piece of Spock’s mind. He assumed that Kirk had it – but Bones was the last one to be with him. Very
similar to the reaction to the Vorlon and Lytia.

 

Subj:: Re:My two cents about new on
Date: 10/6/96 10:11:53 PM
From: JdiJade
Posted on: America Online

I agree about the Kosh/new Kosh thing….Kosh hasn’t been seen by very many, or very often, and it’s not
like there’s an excess of vorlons running around the galaxy that others would notice the slightly different
encounter suit (though to us of course its blaringly obvious).

Subj:: Re:My two cents about new on
Date: 10/8/96 2:47:01 AM
From: Grimlock1
Posted on: America Online

Excuse me! Slightly different?
I know BLIND people that could tell the difference!
And does anyone notice how the original Kosh just seemed to glide around, and this guy, you can tell he’s
walking?

Subj:: Re:My two cents about new on
Date: 10/8/96 5:34:47 AM
From: Jasonb94
Posted on: America Online

Okay I think we all agree that the new Vorlon looks a lot different then Kosh.

The thing is as the audience we see Kosh far more than anyone on that station. Even G’Kar and Londo
hardly ever see him. Sheridan and Ivaniva are probably one of the few that have seen him regularly enough
to know that he looks different.

If they try and pretend that this is the original Kosh I am sure that most people will accept that.

Subj:: Re:New Kosh( IanHeslop)
Date: 10/8/96 7:34:44 PM
From: Bowen4954
Posted on: America Online

Tsk, tsk, Ian! I smell a potential spoiler.

Subj:: Kosh Returneth
Date: 10/9/96 6:23:11 AM
From: Wrgmr
Posted on: America Online

First matter: anyone notice how all the Vorlons wear the smaller, angular encounter suits, while Kosh (the
original) had a larger, more ornate suit? Is this just because he is an ambassador, or is he a rather important
individual in the Vorlon society?
And while I am speaking of individuals and society, allow me to put forth a personal theory on the “true
nature” of the Vorlons. It is possible that there is not a society of individual Vorlons, but rather a single
Vorlon greater intelligence that exists within Vorlon space. This intelligence is capable of fragmenting
itself into what we are seeing as the Vorlon individuals. The new Kosh’s statement “We are all Kosh”
would seem to support this. Just a thought, and nothing definite.

In addition: for those of you thinking that the new Kosh is really the old Kosh in a new set of clothes,
consider this – If the old Kosh is not really dead, then why would the new Kosh be interested in finding
fragments of him within Sheriden’s brain?
I guess only the Brits know the answer to this one for now, but until we find out for ourselves, happy
brainpicking!

Wrgmr

Subj:: Re:My two cents about new on
Date: 10/10/96 2:29:46 AM
From: JdiJade
Posted on: America Online

>>Excuse me! Slightly different?
I know BLIND people that could tell the difference!<<

To US, yes, but most people haven’t seen Kosh. Using G’Kar’s ant analogy in part….to us, a certain ant
looks pretty much like the next, but to the ants themselves, the difference is probably most obvious. WE
see Kosh frequently on the show, therefore the new ambassador is absurdly different. Recall if you will the
first show of B5, where we discover that few in the galaxy had ever seen a vorlon, no pictures, nothing! SO
to ones such as these, the new Kosh would pretty much be the same as the old.

Subj:: Re:My two cents about new one
Date: 10/10/96 3:39:58 AM
From: RBisno
Posted on: America Online

Actually, kosh is not supposed to be as aloof as he he was. according to my sources, there was originally
supposed to be a scene in the first episode where kosh was in the zoccolo watching some starfuries train
through a “window” and he would comment with one word, “Beautiful”. The scene was supposed to have
been cut out entirely because of lack of shooting time, no other reason

Subj:: Re:My two cents about new one
Date: 10/11/96 1:17:08 AM
From: HAL MMI
Posted on: America Online

He’s evil evil evil evil evil evil evil evil evil evil evil evil evil evil evil evil evil. AND RUDE!!!!!!

Subj:: Re:Search for Vorlons
Date: 10/11/96 7:36:20 AM
From: Muadib0004
Posted on: America Online

OH PLEASE!

Subj:: Re:My two cents about new on
Date: 10/11/96 7:39:07 AM
From: Muadib0004
Posted on: America Online

MAYBE THIS KOSH IS A YOUNG KOSH. HELL, I DON’T KNOW!

Subj:: Re:My two cents about new on
Date: 10/11/96 7:42:09 AM
From: Muadib0004
Posted on: America Online

WOULDN’T THOSE RASCES ON B5 THAT DON’T KOSH OFTEN THINK…..HMM, MAYBE HE
WENT HOME FOR A CHANGE OF SUITS?

Subj:: Re:My two cents about new on
Date: 10/11/96 7:44:30 AM
From: Muadib0004
Posted on: America Online

nO HAL MMI. HE IS JUST NEW. I LIKE IT TO A POINT. NOTHING LIKE A VORLON WITH A
LITTLE ATTITUDE. I DOUBLE DARE THOSE SHADOW THINGS TO TAKE KOSH2 ON.

Subj:: Re:Search for Vorlons
Date: 10/11/96 7:45:33 AM
From: Muadib0004
Posted on: America Online

sorry folks, i was responding to something i was reading about earlier when i said please.

Subj:: Re: Differences in Kosh.
Date: 10/11/96 4:47:12 PM
From: MegaUser
Posted on: America Online

Ok, let me see if I’ve got this straight…

A bunch of you are complaining that everyone will immediately realize it’s not Kosh.

Think about it:

You’ve only seen one Vorlon, ever, and he was wearing an encounter suit to completely isolate him from the
(supposedly) unbreathable oxygen-rich environment as opposed to the methane-environment in his own
quarters… If you’ve ever heard him speak, it’s rarely been more than a single word, and always extremely
cryptic.

Now, today, you see him, and his suit is different. Maybe you even hear him speak–and he seems a little
less nice.

The logical assumption: He’s wearing a different encounter suit, and maybe he’s just in a bad mood today.

ANALOGY: If you saw a scuba-diver friend of yours in a COMPLETELY different scuba outfit, and he
wasn’t quite as polite as usual, and, just to really take this to an extreme, he’s driving an entirely different car
from what you’ve seen him drive before do you assume that he’s died and it’s an imposter or do you assume
it’s him, he’s got a new car (maybe you’ll ask him about it), he got a new suit (again, maybe you’ll ask, or
maybe you’ll assume he has several different ones–maybe even for different situations).

As far as people on the station are concerned (even G’Kar/Londo), there is–and only has been–one Vorlon
on the station: Kosh. Wondering about him is nothing new. Even Sheridan said (to the original Kosh)
[paraphrased] “You’re always in that encounter suit, and you’ve come and gone to your home world several
times–how do we even know that you’re the same Vorlon under there?”

That’s the most of it. Plenty of people probably wonder “is it the same Vorlon?” but they always have, and,
at most, they’ll just be a little more suspicious–but it’s not an integral part of their life and they can’t do
anything about it, and, as far as they know, it doesn’t affect them.

No big deal.

Subj:: AnswrWhoRVorlons.
Date: 10/29/96 9:55:21 AM
From: WeRallKosh
Posted on: America Online

WE ARE ALL KOSH!

Subj:: kosh & inquisitor
Date: 11/3/96 11:09:41 AM
From: PeteMellor
Posted on: America Online

Maybe that’s the whole point of his death, he gave his lives and no one knows just like sherridan and delann
were willing to do

Subj:: Re:kosh & inquisitor
Date: 11/4/96 3:31:30 AM
From: Wendingo
Posted on: America Online

An observation on Vorlons. I think we are beginning to see the true nature of the race. It is being
revealed slowly. Part of it was revealed by the First One Ivanova found. It was an ally in the last war and
reacted negatively to them. Suggesting, at least, that the Vorlons had been a touch smug or arrogant or
something. Here we learned they aren’t perfect. Then the new ambassador shows up. He is mean and Lyta
is at least a little afraid of him. Not a good sign. Then there is Sheridan’s meeting with the Shadow’s
agents. There was, I think, more than a little truth in what was said. The only piece of the puzzle missing is
motive. The Shadow’s motive appears to be old-fashioned domination. What is the Vorlon’s motive?

Subj:: Re:kosh & inquisitor
Date: 11/6/96 4:40:55 PM
From: Enfuego007
Posted on: America Online

Perhaps it could be the old story of one race wanting to continue its own existence. We already know that
the shadows are few in numbers. Also, the Vorlons are few in numbers. Perhaps, it could be a race
between the two “superior” races for their own existence. Perhaps somehow, Vorlons or shadows are the
product of the “melding” of two races. Its is already known that the Minbari and Humans share an unusal
bond that trancends anything we can understand at the moment.
Just a thought.
Also, at the end of Za’Ha’Dum..woops..spoiler……
.
.
.
.
Anyway, at the end of Za’Ha’Dum, when Garibaldi is wrapped up in the Shadow vessal, perhaps that
shadow ship IS Captain Sheridan. Just another idea.
Write back please!

Subj:: Re: Differences in Kosh.
Date: 11/6/96 4:56:36 PM
From: Enfuego007
Posted on: America Online

Just a an add on…
First encounter suit-Had a green light for eye piece
Second encounter suit-Had a Red light for the eye piece

Also, Kosh’s new ship looks very similar to the ship that the camera focused in on in the Shadow/Vorlon
battle in “Interludes and Examinations”.

It would also be interesting to compare the marking on the old ship to that of the new one, perhaps they are
similar.

Also, about seeing only one Vorlon, thats not true, on War without End I, the Vorlon Ambassador(who by
the way, was extremely more angular and cool looking that BOTH Kosh’s) to Minbar made an appearance
to say something about Sinclair.(He is returning to the beginning).

Also, when Kosh died, a weird sort of blue flame passed through Babylon5, also, the image of Morden and
the Shadows were burned into the door of Kosh’s quarters. Perhaps Kosh is all around the station, he has
fused with it. The New Vorlon ambassador seems to be the clean-up man, trying to find pieces of Kosh, for
what reason, I have no idea.
But what strikes me as funny is, if he were truly looking for pieces of Kosh’s energy, and if
Vorlons are truly “godlike” in their telepathic ability, then he should he “detected” Kosh in Sheridan when
they first met.

Subj:: Re: Differences in Kosh.
Date: 11/6/96 6:07:26 PM
From: MassPHIL
Posted on: America Online

Unless Kosh 1 wished to remani undetected in Sheridan for some reason.

Subj:: Re: Differences in Kosh.
Date: 11/7/96 9:50:08 PM
From: GMacary
Posted on: America Online

maby Kosh 1 decided he wanted to be his own man, and help the CAPT. out so he hide himself from kosh2
or is that kosh too

Subj:: Re: Differences in Kosh.
Date: 11/8/96 8:03:18 AM
From: Lord VJAC
Posted on: America Online

<<maby Kosh 1 decided he wanted to be his own man, and help the CAPT. out so he hide himself from
kosh2 or is that kosh too>>
Nahhh… Ithink poor Kosh wasn’t killed, but the trauma of being attacked allowed his other EVIL
personality to escape. THAT’S RIGHT…. Kosh has multiple personality disorder. And when a vorlon gets
multiple personalities, they split into two or more entities. The weaker ones have to live in host bodies.
Tada. (OK so maybe it’s far out, but it COULD work)

Subj:: Re: Differences in Kosh.
Date: 11/8/96 8:05:49 AM
From: MassPHIL
Posted on: America Online

ummmm, I don’t think so.
:)
Subj:: Re: Differences in Kosh
Date: 11/8/96 9:44:46 PM
From: CINNIMON G
Posted on: America Online

Maybe what Kosh 1 needed was a good dose of prozac?? NOT!!! There is a major difference in the two
Koshs’ that we haven’t yet seen.As Lyta said in Wolf…something darker and possibly evil…Can a Vorlon be
evil??? That also remains to be seen……also I don’t like Kosh jr…he is very rude to Delenn….i hate that…she
has done alot ..she deserves more than that…..

Subj:: Re: Differences in Kosh
Date: 11/9/96 1:58:01 AM
From: Dkats12
Posted on: America Online

Too right there’s a difference…didn’t you hear Lyta bring up the differences opf feeling when she carried
the new one in her? The attitude is another dead give away.

Subj:: Re: Differences in Kosh.
Date: 11/9/96 8:36:40 AM
From: Lord VJAC
Posted on: America Online

<<ummmm, I don’t think so.
:)>>
Hey, I didn’t say I thought it was a good idea, just that in a Universe of infinite possibilities, this wasd one
(that would be more humouress):)>
Subj:: Re: Differences in Kosh.
Date: 11/10/96 3:54:53 AM
From: Grimlock1
Posted on: America Online

I am starting to think of the new Kosh sort of like some one in the CIA.
He operates on the principle “that in order to win, we have to play just as dirty as they do, we can’t obsess
on one person, when we have a war to fight.”

Or, they just need to break him in.
Subj:: Re: Differences in Kosh.
Date: 11/14/96 6:08:54 PM
From: DinaD16717
Posted on: America Online

>>>I think that the new Kosh represents a more truer version of the Vorlons. I think that the first Kosh was
a renagade of sorts.

>>>The new Kosh has a mission that the first Kosh didn’t complete and he’s there to see that the job gets
done.

>>> Also, the old Kosh is stored in Sherdians person a la Dr. Macoy/Spock. The Vorlons want the first
Kosh back. How are they going to do it?
Food for thought.

DinaD

Subj:: What are the Vorlons?
Date: 11/14/96 6:21:12 PM
From: DVanheusen
Posted on: America Online

Do the Vorlons have physical bodies. I don’t think that they do. If you remember, Kosh first revealed
himself when Sheradian jumped out of the tram that was about to explode. All on the ground saw him
except for Londo. Why? Because the Vorlons are psychic entities rather than phsyical. Londo was blocked
because his mind had been tainted by the Shadows.

D’An

Subj:: Re:What are the Vorlons?
Date: 11/14/96 8:44:37 PM
From: Tryel Sana
Posted on: America Online

Spoiler info
1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
Hope this is enough….
Londo couldn’t see a Vorlon because the Genetic programming isn’t there. JMS has metioned on the
Lurker’s site I think that we will see what a Vorlon really looks like sometime in the next two seasons (JMS:
if your reading this and I’m wrong please correct me :-) The image a human, Minbari, Narn or any other
race that has had Vorlon tampering will see them as such. Its a perceptual encounter suit.
Tryel
Subj:: VORLONS- FRIENDS OR FOES
Date: 11/15/96 5:52:28 AM
From: BEAR1701A
Posted on: America Online

I BELIEVE THE VORLONS ARE AS HUMAN AS YOU AND ARE JUST MORE ADEPT AT HIDING
IT

Subj:: Re:What are the Vorlons?
Date: 11/15/96 2:34:44 PM
From: DinaD16717
Posted on: America Online

>>>The Vorlons have tampered with, seemingly, every child race. The Vorlons saw a time, after the first
defeat of the Shadows, when they would need to fight them again. So they created telepaths throughout the
galaxy to fight for them.

>>> Like the Shadows the, Vorlons fight behind the sceens, manipulating all that would benifit them. They
knew that the human race would eventually push the limits of mind powers through breeding, chemical, and
genetic manipulation. How could they not know if they have been in contact with Earth for thousands of
years through overt and covert visits. Before giving the human race that ‘gift’ they had to know what humans
would do with it (I’m digressing).

>>>I still maintain that the new Kosh is a truer version of the Vorlons. I say this without knowing whether
Lytea ‘carried’ Vorlons other than the old and new Kosh.

Food for thought.

DinaD

Subj:: Londo
Date: 11/16/96 1:38:27 AM
From: Grimlock1
Posted on: America Online

If he saw “nothing” when Kosh saved Sheridien, I think he would have been a little more worked up.
I’m rereading the Courtship of Princess Lea, and PrinceIsolder at least did a little eye-popping when Luke
levitated two starfighters, himself and the aforementioned prince down to good old solid ground.

Subj:: Re:Londo
Date: 11/16/96 3:51:48 AM
From: HAL MMI
Posted on: America Online

Londo didn’t NOT see. But what he saw disturbed him to the extent that he refused to talk or think about it.
A genetic response of pure loathing. Centauri are the Shadow’s pawns and Mimbari are the Vorlon’s.

-Of course all that will change when Londo becomes emperor and kicks the shadows out. And the
mimbari(under Delenn’s rule) will cease to revere the Vorlons after their knew found insanity is made
apparent. The old ones will cease to have pawns. It will be a dark day.

Subj:: Re:Vorlons
Date: 11/18/96 6:43:47 PM
From: DinaD16717
Posted on: America Online

>>>The preview for next weeks shows looks sinister. I think now we will see what the real motives of the
Vorlons are.

>>> Just because the Vorlons present themselves are beings of light ie: goodness that really doesn’t mean
much to me.

>>>do the Vorlons exist on the samr dementional plane as the rest of us or is it a struggle for them to reveal
themselves on this plane.

>>>I say that the Vorlons and the Shadows are not so different. They are more alike than either is willing
to admit. Sometimes looking in that mirror is very difficult.

DinaD

Subj:: Vorlons (Spoiler?Speculation?)
Date: 11/19/96 9:18:51 PM
From: WaywardFlf
Posted on: America Online

Leaving a bit of space for those who may not wish to speculate about the Vorlons…
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.
.
Is it possible that the Vorlons killed the Narn telepaths? Either by accident, or on purpose?

If by accident, could the Narn telepaths been “carrying” Vorlons (or pieces of one Vorlon) and that a
Shadow confrontation at Narn with that Vorlon would lead to the Narn TPs getting fried (mentally)? (It
would be too, too sad if that Vorlon was Kosh.)

If on purpose, perhaps the Shadows hadn’t discovered the importance of the Narn telepaths and the Vorlons
wanted to keep the significance of the telepaths as a weapon for as long as possible, especially if the
Shadows were being driven by to Z’Ha’Dum. That would give the Vorlons time to ‘work’ on the younger
races re: telepathy. So the Vorlons could have “screamed in the dreams of the mindwalkers” and then done
serious spin control with C’Quan. After all, if the Vorlons were “trusted” by the Narns, and the Vorlons told
the Narns in the wake of the tragedy “remember those ships, those are the enemy,” it would be too easy to
juxtapose the drawing of the ship, the story of the Ancient Enemy’s arrival, and the tragedy of the loss of the
telepaths, and to assume that they are all related.

Wondering if the great god Boogie would approve,

WaywardFlf

Subj:: Re:Vorlons (Spoiler?Speculati.
Date: 11/20/96 2:03:45 AM
From: BPowell170
Posted on: America Online

Ah, except that I think I remember the Book of G’Kwan saying that the Shadows killed the Narn telepaths in
the last great war.

Nice speculation, though.

— barb

Subj:: Re:Vorlons (Spoiler?Speculati.
Date: 11/20/96 2:39:09 AM
From: WaywardFlf
Posted on: America Online
<<the Book of G’Kwan saying that the Shadows killed the Narn telepaths in the last great war.>>

From what I can remember, the Book of G’Quan calls them the ‘Ancient Enemy’, right? And yes, there’s a
drawing of a Shadow vessel in the Book, but then, the Shadow vessels are pretty distinctive.

I think it’s at the end of Ship of Tears when there’s the big Garabaldi/G’Kar translation scene. We know that
the Book of G’Quan has a drawing of what looks like a Shadow vessel, and the book records that the
“Ancient Enemy” went to Narn, and took little notice of the native population.

But then Garabaldi and G’Kar come up with the “mindwalker” = “telepath” translation and G’Kar read from
the Book that the spirit of Darkness “screamed in the dreams of the mindwalkers”, and that the last of the
surviving Narn mindwalkers helped to drive the Spirit of Darkness away.

Why would the Ancient Enemy ignore the native population, only to suddenly kill massive numbers of the
Narn telepaths? Besides, the Shadows like to get others to mix things up, so why take on the Narns
themselves, why not get a younger race to take them on?

Unless…you factor in the Vorlons. Either the Narn telepaths were collateral damage, or…the Vorlons were
implementing their own brand of playing ‘keep-away’.

Makes one wonder who the title ‘Ancient Enemy’ refers to, doesn’t it?

Hopes the great god Boogie wouldn’t like it one bit,

WaywardFlf

Subj:: Vorlons Help
Date: 11/20/96 7:25:54 AM
From: Parawolfie
Posted on: America Online

I think the Vorlons should put their money where their mouth is like Sheridan said to Kosh. They wanted
this fight and now that they got it where are they? They should be taking some initiative instead of letting
races get smoothered all over the galaxy. They have the only ships comparable to the shadow vessels. Tell
them to get of their butts.

Subj:: Re:Vorlons Help
Date: 11/21/96 2:27:46 AM
From: SSmith9644
Posted on: America Online

I just saw the newest episode of B5 and the vorlons get off their butts to help, but they do it in a VERY bad
way.

SSmith9644

Subj:: Re:Vorlons Help
Date: 11/22/96 1:34:29 AM
From: Grimlock1
Posted on: America Online

Might be neat if they could UPGRADE all the WS’s to total Vorlon technology.

Subj:: Re:Vorlons Help
Date: 11/24/96 11:13:19 PM
From: Grimlock1
Posted on: America Online

<<Might be neat if they could UPGRADE all the WS’s to total Vorlon technology.>>
I don’t see this happening any time soon.
Where’s the Grand Fleet when you really need them?

Oh, I think the conversation between Lyta and Kosh v2 strengthens my theory that Kosh v1 & Lyta may
have had more than just a working relationship.

Subj:: Evil Kosh
Date: 11/28/96 9:30:04 AM
From: Parawolfie
Posted on: America Online

I think the concept of team play has totally eluded the Vorlons. First they dont commit any ships to the war
until Sheridan twist Kosh’s arm. Now this new ambassador and the Vorlon Government get this stupid idea
that Genocide is a OK solution to collaberators. I think the Vorlons should just sit their butts out and let the
Sheridan and the other races finish what they started. What a bunch of idiots these Vorlons are. The war
might be over without them.

Subj:: Re:Evil Kosh
Date: 11/28/96 8:17:45 PM
From: Grimlock1
Posted on: America Online

Well if we could just get the Vorlons pointed in the right direction…
They and the Shadows kick the tar out of each other, the winner, who is weakened by the battle, gets to deal
with the WS fleet and the rest of the Forces of Light.

Subj:: Lyta’s Gills……..
Date: 11/29/96 11:30:27 PM
From: ORourke
Posted on: America Online

If the Gills let her breath in a Methane-heavy atmosphere, Then why do she have to wear a Gas Mask?!

Subj:: Re:Lyta’s Gills……..
Date: 11/30/96 12:37:04 AM
From: StarshipII
Posted on: America Online

<<If the Gills let her breath in a Methane-heavy atmosphere, Then why do she have to wear a Gas
Mask?!>>

She doesn’t HAVE to wear it; she just wears it as a disguise. Nobody knows about her gills; you’ll notice
they’re invisible when she doesn’t need them. But a human walking into the alien sector without breathing
gear is suspicious; you’ll also notice the only time she doesn’t wear it is in Kosh’s quarters, which is both
private and contains a methane-rich atmosphere. She puts it on again when she’s leaving.

Then again, who says that the atmosphere in the corridors outside Kosh’s atmosphere is compatible for her?
The ability to breath methane and oxygen does not necessarily convey the ability to breath, say, chlorine or
other harmful gases. Who knows whats in that atmospheric soup in the alien sector?

-Just my $.02
Subj:: Re:Lyta’s Gills……..
Date: 11/30/96 4:36:23 AM
From: Grimlock1
Posted on: America Online

<<Who knows whats in that atmospheric soup in the alien sector?>>
I don’t want to know!

 

Subj:: Factions?
Date: 12/2/96 6:49:04 AM
From: MassPHIL
Posted on: America Online

Hmm, spoiler for Apotheosis
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
Are there two different factions of Vorlons maybe, or is Kosh v1 just a renegade? Seeing as he just killed a
fellow Vorlon.

Subj:: Re:Lyta’s Gills……..
Date: 12/2/96 7:45:13 AM
From: JVibber
Posted on: America Online

<< Then again, who says that the atmosphere in the corridors outside Kosh’s atmosphere is compatible for
her? …. Who knows whats in that atmospheric soup in the alien sector? >>

That seems to be more appropriate an explanation for what we see in “Falling Toward Apotheosis.” Lyta is
trying to get Kosh2 to hurry, but takes the time to put on her gas mask before leaving his quarters. There’s
hardly anybody to see whether she’s wearing it or not, and she takes special care NOT to remove the gas
mask until the indicator light in the airlock turns green (indicating “safe” atmosphere for oxygen breathers).
I figure if she didn’t need the mask, she would have been a little less careful about it in this scene.

 
Subj:: Re:Factions?
Date: 12/4/96 1:54:59 AM
From: Mesika
Posted on: America Online

spoiler for apotheosis

/
/
/
/
/
/
/
//
I think kosh(1) was a renagade…A good guy…..for a vorlon. Time will tell. I will miss him. It was like he
died again, only this time he won’t be back..

Subj:: Re:Factions?
Date: 12/5/96 10:43:48 AM
From: Vorlankosh
Posted on: America Online

I am afraid you are correct, Kosh 1 seems to be very dead….

Subj:: shadow encounter suits?
Date: 12/6/96 12:43:00 AM
From: Leoprcur
Posted on: America Online

I was wondering if the shadows also use encounter suits?

Subj:: Re:shadow encounter suits?
Date: 12/6/96 5:54:39 AM
From: JVibber
Posted on: America Online

<< I was wondering if the shadows also use encounter suits? >>

I’ve been wondering this for a long time. We have another set of beings with glowing “eyes” in their heads,
encased in shell-like enclosures that may or may not be their bodies. Encounter suits seem a very definite
possibility.

Another issue is whether the Shadows are “really” there when they accompany Morden on the station. He
wanders around the hallways, sits in the bar — all in public. Nobody ever seems to bump into his invisible
companions. Are they physically there, in some sort of “bodiless” or “phased” state, or just some sort of
astral projection?
Subj:: First Ones
Date: 12/7/96 9:40:46 AM
From: JORERIAH
Posted on: America Online

Remember when Ivanova, and Marcus went in search of first ones last season? Well, they didn’t seem to
happy about Ivanova mention of the Vorlons.

P.S.

Are we going to see more first ones besides Lorien?

Subj:: RE What are the Vorlons?
Date: 12/7/96 4:41:20 PM
From: Nathan H5
Posted on: America Online

I’m a bit behind in the times, having not watched B5 for a couple of years. Last week, when they lured
the ‘evil’ Kosh down into the bowels of B5 and blew his encounter-suit’s head-piece off, I thought that the
being that poured out and floated around down there was a Vorlon as we would see one. When the remenant
of the first Kosh erupted out of Sheridan, and attacked the bad Vorlon and destroyed his ship I thought this
was our climatic view of that race. Was that the season-final? Is a new season going to start? Now that I’ve
gotten back into B5 I want to catch up on alot of things. Any publications on B5 available? I’m fascinated
with the shadows, and their organic ships, which remind me of a cross between an indo-pacific sea-urchin
and a spider; also the graceful beauty of the Vorlon ships. Any help would be highly appreaciated! Thanks!

Fred

Subj:: Re:RE What are the Vorlons?
Date: 12/7/96 6:00:48 PM
From: LynnRAllen
Posted on: America Online

Fred,
Check out the Lurker’s Guide to B5 on the Web. Another good source of background info is the episode
guide right here on AOL…

Lynn

Subj:: what does it say
Date: 12/9/96 4:39:31 PM
From: LK Oakes
Posted on: America Online

Remember when the new Vorlon embassador arrived at Babylon5. When his/her/its stopped and rose to
meet Sheridan while he was stretching his legs on the forward cargo stabalizers. What did the symbols that
formed on the side of the ship say?

Subj:: Re:what does it say
Date: 12/10/96 2:59:26 AM
From: GMacary
Posted on: America Online

It said “don’t be dumb, don’t go to za’ha’doom

Subj:: Vorlon ships
Date: 12/13/96 2:31:37 AM
From: Randomgray
Posted on: America Online

I have a question: If a Vorlon ship explodes in Space, can anyone here it scream?

Subj:: Living ships
Date: 12/17/96 1:55:56 PM
From: Rodfive
Posted on: America Online

In earlier episodes, the doctor encountered technology mixing living matter with useful items. Is there
going to be any mention of this later? If the Vorlon Ships are living, why hasn’t the doctor asked about the
living tools he encountered earlier? Isn’t it a logical assumption that the living tools were created by the
Vorlons?
If the Vorlon ships are living entities, do they have conscious thought? Are they intelligent as our dogs?
Can they make desitions on their own? If so, how do the living ships feel about destroying entire planets?
Do they have morals?

Rod Five
Subj:: Bio-Tech
Date: 12/18/96 3:55:34 AM
From: HARDLEC
Posted on: America Online

Vorlon possessions, i.e. their ships and encounter suits, seem to be pieces of the Vorlon. Kosh2’s ship
became aggitated when Kosh2 was being ambushed. If it had a life of it’s own, or not, we will have to wait.
Kosh’s ship did not display similar behavior.
One wonders why Kosh was so willing to sacrifice him/her/itself to slay Kosh2? Kosh2’s cryptic “We are
all Kosh” makes less sence now than it ever did…if it ever did.
If Vorlons use bio-tech do they have energy absorbing sefensive screens?
What is their powersourse?
Would they be tasty breaded and fried (homage to the squid-like appearence of Kosh2 out of his suit…)
Subj:: Re:smart ships
Date: 12/19/96 5:22:24 AM
From: SHERzipp
Posted on: America Online

I hope they’re smarter than dogs — my dog’s an absolute sweetie, but he’s dumber ‘n dirt.

Sherry

Subj:: Re:Search is over
Date: 12/20/96 7:27:18 PM
From: Tfjruth
Posted on: America Online

there is only one vorlon he is kosh. remember”we are all kosh”vorlon ships are alive vorlon pets.

Subj:: Re:Living ships
Date: 12/21/96 4:37:45 AM
From: JVibber
Posted on: America Online

<< If the Vorlon Ships are living, why hasn’t the doctor asked about the living tools he encountered earlier?
Isn’t it a logical assumption that the living tools were created by the Vorlons? >>

On the contrary. Biotechnology seems to be something that many of the more advanced races have. The
Shadow’s ships are clearly some form of biotechnology. Even the Minbari’s space ships seem to have been
“grown” — they look a lot like giant seashells or fish. It’s pretty clear that the Vorlons don’t have an
exclusive lock on this.
Subj:: Re:Living ships
Date: 12/23/96 4:38:58 AM
From: Lopez Trek
Posted on: America Online

<<If the Vorlon ships are living entities, do they have conscious thought? Are they intelligent as our dogs?
Can they make desitions on their own? If so, how do the living ships feel about destroying entire planets?
Do they have morals?>>

Maby the real big ones are dumb but the small transport ships (the umbrellas) do moorn the loss of their
master.

Lopez

 

Subj:: Re:Kosh?
Date: 12/24/96 12:33:45 AM
From: B5 KOSH 1
Posted on: America Online

is Kosh dead, or still inside sheridens mind? or did the two vorlons go with that ship that left?

Subj:: B5
Date: 12/24/96 12:35:48 AM
From: B5 KOSH 1
Posted on: America Online

you guys should chang the pic. of the B5 main screen, its geting old, use a new pic. of the B5 station.

Subj:: Re:B5
Date: 12/24/96 1:22:04 AM
From: B5 Online
Posted on: America Online

You should check the main screen more often. ;>

 

Subj:: Re:Kosh?
Date: 12/24/96 4:43:22 AM
From: JhnyReb
Posted on: America Online

My friend and fellow fan:

I have it on good authority (JMS posting), that Kosh Classic is gone for good. He *died*, or was
completely used up when he killed Kosh v2.

And Kosh v2’s ship didn’t leave, it was destroyed by the deaths of both the Koshes.

Johnny Reb

Subj:: Re:B5
Date: 12/24/96 6:01:25 AM
From: B5 KOSH 1
Posted on: America Online

I have watched the show from the begining and love it, I love Kosh, and all the charactors, I heared that the
show isn’t going to last much longer, or so they say. so I whould love to come and visit the studio, if it’s ok
with you guys. I have always wanted to see the studio, see how the show is shot and all that.

B5 KOSH 1

Subj:: Re:B5 Kosh 1
Date: 12/25/96 8:10:40 AM
From: JhnyReb
Posted on: America Online

I hope you get your opportunity, however, you will in the least need to post to the cast and crew folder, jms
folder, and I would personally suggest writing a snail mail letter to the studio.

:)

Johnny Reb

Subj:: Re:Bio-Tech
Date: 12/26/96 12:43:26 AM
From: Gary7sevn
Posted on: America Online

>>>From: HARDLEC
One wonders why Kosh was so willing to sacrifice him/her/itself to slay Kosh2? Kosh2’s cryptic “We are
all Kosh” makes less sence now than it ever did…if it ever did.<<<

1- There was only a small piece of Kosh1’s collective consicousness left in Sheridan. That remaining
part of Kosh was afraid to let go and fall into the abyss of nothingness just as Sheridan was afraid to let go
when he lept into the pit at Z’Ha’dum. Lorien told sheridan as much about himself, and about Kosh. 2- The
statement, “We are all Kosh,” is, as I’ve heard it anyway, nothing more than a Vorlon military designation
ie. rank, which is said to have come from JMS himself. I haven’t gotten this confirmed myself, but if it’s true
then that would lay that question to rest.
Subj:: Re:Kosh?
Date: 12/26/96 12:46:03 AM
From: Gary7sevn
Posted on: America Online

>>>From: B5 KOSH 1
is Kosh dead, or still inside sheridens mind? or did the two vorlons go with that ship that left?<<<

Delenn said that what we saw was “the last of Kosh” fighting Kosh2 when he got ambushed. It was
clear that whatever may have been left of Kosh1 died in that fight to the death between the two Vorlons.

Subj:: Re:Kosh?
Date: 12/26/96 9:09:40 AM
From: Madd Piper
Posted on: America Online

>>>Delenn said that what we saw was “the last of Kosh” fighting Kosh2 when he got ambushed. It was
clear that whatever may have been left of Kosh1 died in that fight to the death between the two Vorlons.<<<

Delenn didn’t say that, Lorien did. And JMS himself said that Kosh Classic was gone for good.

Ni Math beannaich
Saobh Piobaire

Subj:: Re:Madd Piper
Date: 12/26/96 9:52:12 AM
From: JhnyReb
Posted on: America Online

Thanks, I’m glad I’n not the only one who saw the Straczynski posting…

Johnny Reb

Subj:: Re:Bio-Tech
Date: 12/27/96 5:45:32 PM
From: JVibber
Posted on: America Online

>>>From: HARDLEC
One wonders why Kosh was so willing to sacrifice him/her/itself to slay Kosh2? Kosh2’s cryptic “We are
all Kosh” makes less sence now than it ever did…if it ever did.<<<

>>> From: Gary7sevn
…”Kosh,” is, as I’ve heard it anyway, nothing more than a Vorlon military designation ie. rank, which is
said to have come from JMS himself. <<<

I’m not sure about the designation question. JMS has said SOMETHING of the sort, but never in a way that
I could make sense of. On the other hand, “Kosh” COULD refer to something like “ambassador to aliens” –
– much like the Kzin character “Speaker to Animals” in Larry Niven’s stories. Still another interpretation,
which is entirely my own, relates to the idea that Vorlons place pieces of themselves in other organisms.
So, perhaps the “original” Kosh is still on the Vorlon homeworld, and has sent pieces of himself in
encounter suits to various parts of the galaxy as ambassadors (and meddlers). Certainly each of US has a
collection of personality “facets” — some nice and some not so nice — that if they were split off, would act
very differently from one another.

About the only thing I have seen in the SHOW that would contradict this idea of splitting one Vorlon into
many Koshes is the attitude that Lorien takes regarding Kosh 1 and Kosh 2 — he SEEMS to think of Kosh 2
as a complete, independent, WHOLE Vorlon. But, again, that is just a

Subj:ective inference of my own.
Subj:: Re:Bio-Tech
Date: 12/28/96 6:41:55 AM
From: Gary7sevn
Posted on: America Online

>>From: JVibber
On the other hand, “Kosh” COULD refer to something like “ambassador to aliens” <<

Yes, I’ve wondered about precisely this myself.

>>Still another interpretation, which is entirely my own, relates to the idea that Vorlons place pieces of
themselves in other organisms. So, perhaps the “original” Kosh is still on the Vorlon homeworld, and has
sent pieces of himself in encounter suits to various parts of the galaxy as ambassadors (and meddlers). <<

No, not very likely since we saw a physical presence\manifestation in Kosh1 both in their encounter
suits, but *especially* when they battled to the death. What we saw come out of Sheridan was the last small
remaining piece of Kosh1, and JMS has definitely confirmed this.

>>About the only thing I have seen in the SHOW that would contradict this idea of splitting one Vorlon
into many Koshes is the attitude that Lorien takes regarding Kosh 1 and Kosh 2 — he SEEMS to think of
Kosh 2 as a complete, independent, WHOLE Vorlon. But, again, that is just a

Subj:ective inference of my own.<<

Well, that was the “essence” of Kosh2 which they had to destroy. For the most part that last
remaining piece of Kosh inhabiting Sheridan was powerless without the rest of his collective consciousness.

Subj:: Re:Bio-Tech
Date: 12/29/96 4:16:40 PM
From: BMered7918
Posted on: America Online
since B-5 derives so many of its themes from greek mythology, I wonder what is the vorlons’
“achilles” heel. For the shadows, it is telepaths; for the minbari, their connection to humans.
Surely the vorlons are

Subj:ect to some human fraility in battle. Their genocide shows they
sure aren’t gods.
and if the vorlons are now morally flawed, who is sheridan’s god-like ally who will provide him with both
moral and military power. After all, humans merely played out the gods’ broader battles.
Subj:: Re:Bio-Tech
Date: 12/30/96 6:49:00 PM
From: JVibber
Posted on: America Online

<< since B-5 derives so many of its themes from greek mythology, I wonder what is the vorlons’
“achilles” heel. … Their genocide shows they sure aren’t gods. >>

Perhaps you are unfamiliar with the Greek myth in which the gods destroyed all of humankind in a big
flood, leaving only one good man and one good woman alive. To repopulate the earth, they were told “cast
the bones of your mother behind you” — which they interpreted as a great sacrilege and disrespect for the
dead, until they interpreted it to mean the bones of “mother earth”, i.e. stones. They walked along, picking
up stones and tossing the stones behind them. Each stone, as it landed, turned into a human being.

And I assume you ARE familiar with the Judeo-Christian story of Noah.

As for what the Vorlons’ weakness is, the Army of Light had better find it REAL SOON, before the “Vorlon
Destructor Fleet” clears away every inhabited planet within 70 light-years.
Subj:: Re:B5 Kosh 1
Date: 1/1/97 1:13:45 AM
From: B5 KOSH 1
Posted on: America Online

how do I write a snial mail letter?

Subj:: Re:B5 Kosh 1
Date: 1/1/97 4:09:54 AM
From: Gary7sevn
Posted on: America Online

>>From: B5 KOSH 1
how do I write a snial mail letter?<<
To write in support of the program:

Mr. Dick Robertson
President
Domestic Television Distribution
Warner Brothers Television
4000 Warner Boulevard
Burbank, CA 91522

Mr. Robert Daly, Chairman
Warner Brothers, Inc.
4000 Warner Boulevard
Burbank, CA 91522

In regard to B5’s lack of publicity:

Ms. Barbara Brogliatti
Senior Vice President
World Wide Television Publicity
4000 Warner Blvd.
Bldg. 137, Room #105
Burbank, CA 91522

(copied from The Zocalo #91)

Subj:: Re:B5 Kosh 1
Date: 1/1/97 11:38:04 AM
From: JhnyReb
Posted on: America Online

Gary7sevn;

B5 KOSH 1 is looking for the studio in Los Angeles.

B5 KOSH 1;

I’ll find it and email it to you,

Johnny Reb

Subj:: Re:B5 Kosh 1
Date: 1/2/97 8:09:36 AM
From: Gary7sevn
Posted on: America Online

>>From: JhnyReb
Gary7sevn;
B5 KOSH 1 is looking for the studio in Los Angeles.<<

Ahh, I missed that.

 

Subj:: Re:kosh 1
Date: 1/4/97 1:34:36 AM
From: Mesika
Posted on: America Online

I will miss kosh classic.Never got a chance to say good bye.
a mournful Mesika.

Subj:: The Vorlon fleet
Date: 1/20/97 7:33:26 PM
From: Spinnering
Posted on: America Online

When Sheridan asked Kosh1 for help fighting the Shadows, Kosh told him, “there are still few of us, we are
not prepared.” What about the fleet hiding in hyperspace!?! I hardly think all those ships were built in a few
months. Was Kosh lying to Sheridan? Is the fleet not meant or not strong enough to fight the Shadows? (I
assume Zha’Ha’Dum is a planet and the Vorlons do have a planet killer so…), Or did Kosh not know of the
fleets existance. He seemed a lot less likely to go along with the idea of destroying entire worlds, in fact he
strangled Sheridan at the mere mention that he was allowing it to happen, then the second Vorlon
ambassador.

Subj:: Re:The Vorlon fleet
Date: 1/21/97 12:41:56 AM
From: StarshipII
Posted on: America Online

<<When Sheridan asked Kosh1 for help fighting the Shadows, Kosh told him, “there are still few of us, we
are not prepared.” What about the fleet hiding in hyperspace!?!>>

The humans have a large fleet, too. How many are on Sheridan’s side?
My point being, perhaps Kosh was not referring to Vorlons in general, but HIS faction of Vorlons. There
seem to be at least two factions, represented by the Two Koshes. Kosh1 seems to represent the faction
we’ve seen in the last few wars…the group that remains behind the scenes, that manipulates the younger
races, nudgung them in the ‘right’ direction now and again but taking an active part only when absolutely
necessary. Kosh2 seems to be part of the darker, more direct , ‘let’s teach these young ones a lesson’ type.
And it seems Kosh1’s people ‘lost’ the inner power struggle. The old vorlons may have been manipulative
sneaky bast…., ummm, people, but at least they left you alive to feel indignant over being used. I think
Kosh1 was worried about the outcome if ‘his’ people lost control, and I think he’s been setting Sheridan up
all along to fight not only the Shadows but the Vorlons too (go back and look at the exchange between Kosh
and Sheridan at the beginning of season three…when Sheridan tells Kosh ‘he hates it when he does that.’
Kosh pauses and says ‘Good.’ He also tells Sheridan he will teach him to fight ‘Legends’, which, as
Sheridan pointed out, ‘Vorlons are Legends too.’) And now Kosh1’s fears have come to pass…

Just my two cents.
of course, this could just mean that I have way too much time between epsiodes.

 

Subj:: Vorlons vs shadows
Date: 2/2/97 9:10:21 AM
From: Funky16ml
Posted on: America Online

Who will win ? Or should The Light fleet destroy both .

Subj:: The Long Night
Date: 2/2/97 4:18:26 PM
From: FalconUSAF
Posted on: America Online

If anyone out there taped this episode (which I missed), please e-mail me. Maybe we could work out an
arrangement to have it mailed to me. I think I missed the episode after this one too. (I don’t now if it was a
new episode following ‘The Long Night’ or not). HELP!!!!!!!

FalconUSAF

Subj:: Re:The Vorlon fleet
Date: 2/3/97 8:21:44 PM
From: GMacary
Posted on: America Online
>>>When Sheridan asked Kosh1 for help fighting the Shadows, Kosh told him, “there are still few of us, we
are not prepared.” What about the fleet hiding in hyperspace!?! I hardly think all those ships were built in a
few months. Was Kosh lying to Sheridan? Is the fleet not meant or not strong enough to fight the
Shadows? (I assume Zha’Ha’Dum is a planet and the Vorlons do have a planet killer so…), Or did Kosh not
know of the fleets existance. He seemed a lot less likely to go along with the idea of destroying entire
worlds, in fact he strangled Sheridan at the mere mention that he was allowing it to happen, then the second
Vorlon ambassador.<<<

I think that was Kosh trying to keep the other Vorlons out of the war as long as posible.
He did not want what is now happening to happen.

He probly also told his goverment that sheradon did not need help yet.

Subj:: Vorlons, Shadows, First Ones
Date: 2/9/97 2:23:15 PM
From: BrianW78
Posted on: America Online

I don’t think we’ve seen the last of the ancient ones. Sure, maybe the First Ones, if all that remained of their
civilivations were those ships, but certainly not the Vorlons or the Shadows. They can’t just get up and
leave (They might be beings of energy but they can’t fly through space like Lorein could). It would be a
massive exodus from every planet Vorlons & Shadows occupy, taking thousands of ships. We know the
Shadows built massive cities on Z’Ha’Dum, and the Vorlon homeworld certainly is the same, plus each side
had offworld bases (the Vorlon observation post; the Shadow base of Centauri Prime) And we know that
not every Vorlon and Shadow ship was in the Corleiannis 6 battle (One Vorlon fleet was at Centauri Prime
at the time, and there had been at least 100 Shadow ships on that planet, and they didn’t seem to be in a
hurry to go anywhere). If JMS wants to be consistent, he should show a few special effect shots of Vorlon
and Shadow ships side by side convoying to the Rim (or a scene like it). But i’d give anything for a shot of
the Vorlons and the Shadows joining up with the rest of the ancient races beyond the edge of the galaxy;
millions of ships too extraordinary-looking to imagine.

Subj:: Re:Vorlons, Shadows, First One
Date: 2/9/97 2:42:08 PM
From: JhnyReb
Posted on: America Online

Faithful Fellow Fan BrianW78,

Please use Spoiler Space when you talk about events that everyone has not seen yet, all our fellow fans have
not seen these episodes.

FFF
Johnny Reb

Subj:: Re:shadow encounter suits?
Date: 2/12/97 1:20:54 AM
From: CRC2001
Posted on: America Online

<<Another issue is whether the Shadows are “really” there when they accompany Morden on the station.
He wanders around the hallways, sits in the bar — all in public. Nobody ever seems to bump into his
invisible companions. Are they physically there, in some sort of “bodiless” or “phased” state, or just some
sort of astral projection?>>

They are there, they killed Kosh, and Londo kills a couple in into the fire

Subj:: Re:Living ships
Date: 2/12/97 1:21:46 AM
From: CRC2001
Posted on: America Online

<<On the contrary. Biotechnology seems to be something that many of the more advanced races have. The
Shadow’s ships are clearly some form of biotechnology. Even the Minbari’s space ships seem to have been
“grown” — they look a lot like giant seashells or fish. It’s pretty clear that the Vorlons don’t have an
exclusive lock on this.>>

True, and don’t forget that the Shadows have allies!

Subj:: Re:Vorlons, Shadows, First O
Date: 2/14/97 9:26:28 PM
From: Spinering
Posted on: America Online

To moron, there will be no discussion of episodes you haven’t seen and/or do not comprehend! #1 The
Shadow vessels on Centauri Prime were blown up, remember the A-bombs? The ground shaking?
#2 The Vorlons LEFT Centauri Prime, remember the big Vorlon ship GOING AWAY! The planet
NOT being blown up?
#3 Lorien, the first, first one said all the first ones were there. He also said “none of us can stay behind
this time!”
#4 And finally this isn’t star trek, you know where the bring back aliens in a desperate attempt to
find something to boost your pathetic ratings!

Subj:: missing episode- Epiphanies
Date: 2/15/97 10:20:34 PM
From: Lewiskevin
Posted on: America Online

My family and I have been watching Babylon 5 for years. We did not know
that there was going to be two different episodes on last week. So we
missed the episode following the one where the Vorlons, enter Sinclairs
body, and the Shadows enter Delins body. (The one aired on 2/9/97 #407
Epiphanies is the one we are missing.) If you taped that episode and we could get a copy of it.

Please Email me at :

lewiskevin@aol.com
or
ddworks@klew.com

Thank you- Kevin
Subj:: Instant Vorlon costume!
Date: 2/20/97 3:50:56 AM
From: RukesRiese
Posted on: America Online

Need a quick costume fix? It’s easy to blend in with the Vorlons all you need is:

Toilet seat(preferably black)
torpedo jet perpulsion system(de-activated)
long cloak

Slip the toilet seat over your head. With the torpedo perpulsion, make sure the jet engine faces outward,
paint green, and carve some peep holes. Drape cloak over toilet seat and enjoy.

Subj:: Re:Instant Vorlon costume!
Date: 2/20/97 8:19:18 PM
From: Sobelgirl
Posted on: America Online

<<From: RukesRiese–Need a quick costume fix? It’s easy to blend in with the Vorlons all you need is:>>
Your line about the tolet seat had me ROFLMHO !! Thank you !!

 

Subj:: ships, collective
Date: 3/21/97 10:52:52 PM
From: Marc448537
Posted on: America Online

Is it possible that the Vorlon ships were plants and they were green because of clorophyl? After all Kosh
1&2’s ships had a part that opened up much like a flower. Also couldn’t it be possible that the Vorlons had
a collective like the Borg. The Vorlons did know of Kosh’s death almost right away.

Subj:: Re:ships, collective
Date: 3/22/97 7:34:57 AM
From: JhnyReb
Posted on: America Online

Marc,

I would say, pretty intuitive supposition. They did make it clear that the Vorlon technology was
biological technology, and that their ships were alive in a certain way. Everything also indicates that the
Vorlons were highly psionic, in fact they explained that the Vorlons created the human psionics through
genetic alteration. So the Vorlons could be some sort of collective linked through psionics, although I tend
to believe that they were fully individual, just linked to each other by psionics.

my 2 cents
FFF
Johnny Reb

Subj:: Help
Date: 4/2/97 11:55:41 PM
From: FrstSpkr
Posted on: America Online

I love Babylon 5,and I especiaaly like the Vorlons.However,the station I was watching B5 on dropped off
our cable.The last new episode I saw was “Walkabout”.I’m suffering from B5 withdrawl !!!!!! I live in
Southeastern Oklahoma,and does anybody know what channel it comes on,what day and what time in that
region?

Subj:: Vorlon Body Suit
Date: 4/26/97 5:02:58 PM
From: VADER1988
Posted on: America Online

What is the vorlon body suit

what does it look like

post a response or e-mail me please!

Subj:: Re:Vorlon Body Suit
Date: 4/27/97 8:07:49 AM
From: JhnyReb
Posted on: America Online

Vader,

The Vorlon suit is actually called the ‘Encounter Suit’ and although it provided an atmosphere more
comfortable to the Vorlon than oxygen/nitrogen, it’s real purpose was to prevent anyone from seeing the
Vorlons as they actually are. It was about six+ feet at the head, with a large ring beginning below the ‘chin’
and continuing around and up behind the head. The head piece is somewhat streamlined with a single iris
valve ‘eye’ in the front. Flowing from the ‘ring’ to the ground was essentially a robe. The suit also has some
devices on the front, similar to your suit.

Hope I answered your question satisfactorily
Johnny Reb

Subj:: Re:Vorlon Body Suit
Date: 4/27/97 2:07:03 PM
From: VADER1988
Posted on: America Online

thankx

Subj:: Last POST!
Date: 5/10/97 4:16:09 AM
From: Hover26
Posted on: America Online

NA NA NA NA! I GOT LAST POST! :) anyway, how did the mimbari get vorlon tech? I know they helped
each other in season 3 but How?

Subj:: Re:Last POST!
Date: 5/10/97 7:57:52 AM
From: JhnyReb
Posted on: America Online

I don’t know what you mean by last post, but in answer to your question, the Vorlons were using
the Minbari to help them fight the Shadows. The Vorlons provided some tech assistance in building the
White Star ships. Whether or not they helped in other areas has not been explained yet, as far as I know.

FFF
Johnny Reb

Subj:: Re:Vorlon Tampering/Help
Date: 5/11/97 12:33:28 PM
From: ALYS 10
Posted on: America Online

JhnnyReb,
I suspect we will stumble across other instances where the Vorlons either lent aid, or tampered
with/enhanced people for their own ends — Lyta certainly falls into that category. As Delenn goes to
Minbar, perhaps more Vorlon interaction with the Minbari will be revealed.

Alys

Subj:: Re:Vorlon Tampering/Help
Date: 5/12/97 6:30:17 AM
From: JhnyReb
Posted on: America Online

Alys,

Good point. And they said that it was the Vorlons who produced telepaths among humans, and
they may be responsible for telepaths among all the Younger Races including the Minbari.

FFF
Johnny Reb

Subj:: Vorlons and Earth?
Date: 5/20/97 3:45:43 AM
From: Rtconner
Posted on: America Online

I missed some of the episodes before the showdown between Vorlons Shadows And Whitestar fleet, My
question is if the Shadows had Infiltrated Earth why didn’t Vorlons send Planetkiller to Earth.

Subj:: Re:Vorlons and Earth?
Date: 5/20/97 6:24:55 AM
From: RCarp105
Posted on: America Online

Who said they were not on the way to Earth?

Subj:: Re:Vorlons and Earth?
Date: 5/20/97 10:20:33 AM
From: SHedr24734
Posted on: America Online

There are only so many planet killers- I’m sure Earth was on the list.

Subj:: Vorlons
Date: 5/20/97 10:44:28 PM
From: B5 Online
Posted on: America Online

Hi, folks!

The Babylon 5 Message Center message board only holds 50 folders (topics). We maintain the boards at 50
folders so there’s room for new folders to be created. When a new folder is created, or a folder is filled to
capacity with 450 posts, we archive and delete the folder. We wanted to let you know that we’ve archived
theVorlons folder to which you all contributed. The archive will be available in the Transcripts and Logs
Library in a few days.

Thanks for your interest in Babylon 5!

Troy Rutter
Babylon 5 Forum Producer

 

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